Classical guitar; audience?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
glassynails
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by glassynails » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:39 am

For the average person today who can't stop looking at their smartphone for 1 minute, even while driving, classical guitar is very boring. It's elevator music to them. Actually though, it's always been very boring, for myself included. I have a passion for playing it and listening to it occasionally while driving, but other than that, it's boring to listen to for very long.
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Peter Lovett
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Peter Lovett » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:56 pm

glassynails wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:39 am
For the average person today who can't stop looking at their smartphone for 1 minute, even while driving, classical guitar is very boring. It's elevator music to them. Actually though, it's always been very boring, for myself included. I have a passion for playing it and listening to it occasionally while driving, but other than that, it's boring to listen to for very long.
I can't really believe that you wrote that. Boring it is not, never has been, never will be.
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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:22 am

no, classical guitar never boring!
But to listen the same pieces again and again played by good players, but not ones who really BELIEVE in thee music they play.. maybe it could be boring?
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

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eno
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by eno » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:17 pm

Peter Lovett wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:56 pm
glassynails wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:39 am
For the average person today who can't stop looking at their smartphone for 1 minute, even while driving, classical guitar is very boring. It's elevator music to them. Actually though, it's always been very boring, for myself included. I have a passion for playing it and listening to it occasionally while driving, but other than that, it's boring to listen to for very long.
I can't really believe that you wrote that. Boring it is not, never has been, never will be.
I would agree with Peter, playing guitar is way more enjoyable than listening. I like listening but usually get bored after an hour. But when I play the hardest thing is to stop, I usually stop because my fingers and body hurt but I'm never bored of playing.
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glassynails
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by glassynails » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:19 pm

I even get bored playing sometimes, but the "itch" to play ALWAYS comes back to me! I'm never gonna give up cg. I think of it from time to time, but it can never happen, it's part of me now.

Classical guitar though for a general audience is NEVER going to happen. It will always be boring to people who listen to today's music and lead extremely fast lives. Most people don't have the time or patience to listen to it, they're just to busy. I think the Spanish pieces and the South American music are more suited to a general audience also. Things like Barrios, Torroba, Albeniz, and your Brazilian and Argentinian stuff is more "dance-like" and fun to listen to.

Pieces like this are more suited to a general audience, rather than Sor and stuff:

Search YouTube for "O Choro De Juliana (Marco Pereira)- by Nadol Jutasompakorn"
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Nick Clow » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:04 am

Classical guitar though for a general audience is NEVER going to happen.
Good grief Glassy! Glass (ha ha) half empty today or what?

Glad to say I disagree. And this goes to Andrei's point. The man in the street does like 'classical guitar'. If he actually ever gets to hear it. There are so many opportunities and mediums in which to take classical guitar, but what seems to hold it back is the fact that the CG seems to have set itself prescribed boundaries (enforced by the hierarchy of academia/exams/conservatoria). Thus classical guitar is enjoyed by a select few in formal settings at CG societies and small classical concerts.

James Rhodes has done a great job in putting piano in front of the common man. Nigel Kennedy has put himself and his instrument out there. John Williams gave it a damn good go. I like what Jason Vieaux is doing. Go forth! I would like to see people with force of personality getting the CG out of its cage.

Gwynedd
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Gwynedd » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:04 am

Most people enjoy the sweet sound of classical guitar, but average people are used to heavy beat and simple tunes for music they enjoy.

Classical music takes more thought; the structure of the music is subtle and not accessible through the soles of your feet.

Years ago, I used to play classical music in my dorm room, and I ended up getting quite a few of my fellow students interested in classical music. But despite going to a good university with smart students, most were uninterested in the wonderful sounds until they were exposed close at hand.

And this was a school where you could walk into a dorm, and there would be a pianist and violinist playing the wonderful Prokofieff sonata in the lounge.

Sirius XM can barely spare two stations for classical music on their satellite broadcast, and one more added on their internet broadcast. Compared to dozens of pop stations from dance techno to rap to top 20 to oldies. It's depressing.

Jazz is suffering a similar decline: you need a brain to enjoy jazz.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:31 am

I agree that CG requires more mental engagement than most of the pop drivel that one hears on the radio these days. It is to me more fun to play than electric guitar. I suppose that this is because of the technical proficiency that is required to play a lot of pieces is greater. It seems to engage my brain a little bit more (sometimes a lot more) than other types of music.

However, a lot of the music that I play on my Ramirez is not considered "classical". It just happens that I play it on a classical guitar. I have a record of Bream and Williams playing some modern compositions that I find quite compelling. I think it is a good idea to bring new music into the realm of the classical guitar because it's nice to listen to, and it keeps it from getting stale. I really can't stand I when all I hear from CG players is the same old Bach pieces that have been recorded a hundred times over. I think that the repertoire must expand in order to keep it alive.

Smudger5150
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Smudger5150 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:23 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:31 am
I agree that CG requires more mental engagement than most of the pop drivel that one hears on the radio these days. It is to me more fun to play than electric guitar. I suppose that this is because of the technical proficiency that is required to play a lot of pieces is greater. It seems to engage my brain a little bit more (sometimes a lot more) than other types of music.

However, a lot of the music that I play on my Ramirez is not considered "classical". It just happens that I play it on a classical guitar. I have a record of Bream and Williams playing some modern compositions that I find quite compelling. I think it is a good idea to bring new music into the realm of the classical guitar because it's nice to listen to, and it keeps it from getting stale. I really can't stand I when all I hear from CG players is the same old Bach pieces that have been recorded a hundred times over. I think that the repertoire must expand in order to keep it alive.
This brings to mind discussions that have been touched on before. But isn't that the nature of these forums?
There have been definitions of what constitutes 'classical' guitar and 'classical' music played on the guitar.
There seems to be a general consensus that 'classical' music is music that is either not modern and/or complex enough to make it interesting to play on the 'classical' guitar, or, have 2 or more voices to bring out the contrapuntal abilities of the 'classical' guitar.
I'm sure someone will shout up if I'm not defining this correctly.

But when does 'modern' music for 'classical' guitar become 'classical'? I'm sure I've asked this before but is it when an accomplished CG player or composer or academic has composed it or adapted it from other music?
When Takemitsu arranged Beatles music, were his arrangements then considered 'au-fait' 'classical' guitar music. But before that, Beatles music played on Classical Guitar wasn't considered 'authentic' 'classical' guitar music?

I was speaking to a work colleague years ago who was an accomplished pianist and studied music at University and he was extolling the virtues of a Britney Spears song saying that the music to the song, not necessarily the singing, was well crafted. Well whether you agree with that or not, it reminds me that a lot of 'pop' music is created/produced by accomplished musicians , many who are probably a lot more talented than the main artist they are backing.
So if we extrapolate from the fact that there may be 'some' good music amongst the plethora (or mire) of pop and rock music, then what is wrong with 'arranging' it so that it can be contrapuntal, interesting and complex enough for the classical guitar so that it becomes....modern 'classical' guitar music.
We can still have modern composers creating new music but arranging the wealth of music out there is an untapped resource if you ask me.
But yes, the 'classical' music that many associate with 'classical' guitar is what makes it special to many of us so we don't want to lose that but the genre can only stand still relying on the past for so long. Imho.

Not sure if that's the kind of thing you were thinking of Laudiesdad69 but this is what sprung (?) to my mind when I read your post.
Plus, I love the fact that I can play whatever I want on the 'classical' guitar whether it's a Dowland piece, a Brouwer piece, finger picking backing to a folk or pop song, an arrangement of a Show or Jazz piece, or, a modern, folk instrumental etc. The list goes on and on. I'm getting deja vu because I'm sure I've said this type of thing before in other posts....
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Smudger5150
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Smudger5150 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:29 am

I guess another aspect to what I'm saying is can't a well-done arrangement for classical guitar be more mentally engaging, potentially, than the original piece that it's based upon?

Not sure if it's a good example but my wife is picky about music but then I found out recently she quite likes Greensleeves. So I played her a version of it played on CG on youtube and she really appreciated the 'fancy playing' when the performer started playing a more complex version of the tune i.e. with extra arpeggios etc. making it more interesting for player and listener. And dare I say, more 'classical' than just playing a simple melody line.
"Music washes away the dust of every day life." Art Blakey

"If I don’t practice for a day, I know it. If I don’t practice for two days, the critics know it. And if I don’t practice for three days, the public knows it." Louis Armstrong

christosanestopoulos
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by christosanestopoulos » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:06 pm

hi to everyone hope you are well.
Well i understand the loneliness of a classical guitarist in Greece,i am from a little town Patras and classical music is so far away from here :(
But its a great thing to always trying for the best in music... so we have to try more.
Not for classical music only but for all the good music.
when you play and one person get in touched...its a great thing.
Big numbers are not the solution.

engravertom
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by engravertom » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:14 am

christosanestopoulos wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:06 pm

when you play and one person get in touched...its a great thing.
Big numbers are not the solution.
Wow, this is quite a discussion. This quote by the op is why I still make music. Drums are the instrument I am most proficient with. I used to be so stressed about getting better. Then I would always hear something new and try to master that. But it never ends. I have not made a career out of music. maybe I could have on drums. Now, I am 52. I have no realistic hope of achieving great mastery of the guitar. But, I can hope to make music, whether my own or other's pieces, that will touch someone. I guess I am more of a nylon string guitarist than a classical guitarist. But I do want to play some classical music.

I enjoy music when it is beautiful, poignant, meaningful somehow. And that will vary from person to person. very simple music can have those effects. Great technical achievement can impress, and be moving in its way also. I think it is up to the performer to find music they like, are passionate about, and seek to share it. few of us will likely gather larger crowds, no matter what we play. But if it happens, great!

Playing ukulele for 8 years has made me a better musician, and, for me, a healthier one too. I try not to compete any more, but just try and make a contribution. Preserving the traditions and disciplines of CG are worthwhile. As long as it doesn't become a cage.

For me, it is fun and exciting. I really can't lose.

Some old preachers used to say that they would set themselves on fire, and people would come to watch them burn. But, it helps when you preach in a language the listener understands. So, there is no need to compromise the "truth" of what classical guitar might mean to each individual, but if we want to communicate with a wider audience, we may want to use at least some vocabulary a wider audience can understand. maybe then they will give a listen to less familiar stuff also. maybe some shorter excerpts from larger pieces. Lots of possibilities.

Maybe it is time for another evolution of the nylon string guitar. It IS such a beautiful sounding instrument!

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Non Tabius
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by Non Tabius » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:47 am

The bottom line for me is to make sure you do, Romance, Fur Elise, Alhambra and Asturias.Oh and of course, Cavatina.Pieces they can relate to.

And if you are into a bit of vocals,"Tears In Heaven" Clapton

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lucy
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by lucy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:42 am

Non Tabius wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:47 am
And if you are into a bit of vocals,"Tears In Heaven" Clapton
Or perhaps no vocals at all!

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amade
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Re: Classical guitar; audience?

Post by amade » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:47 pm

Julian Bream spoke of the classical guitar "ghetto," and isn't that pretty much the state of things these days? There was a general audience from the 1950s well into the 1980s (perhaps beyond). I recall the guitar series at Orchestra Hall in Chicago (where the CSO performs). Segovia always drew a large audience. John Williams and Julian Bream did not play to empty halls. So things have changed. There have been a lot of thoughtful reasons advanced here, but I would add that original, engaging performers on any instrument are rare. Those of us old enough to have enjoyed performances by these artists are fortunate. Perhaps another such guitarist will appear on the scene, whose playing is more than accurate, fast, and efficient. Whose choice of repertory brings something special to the concert stage. A compelling performer whose playing draws an audience and influences a generation of guitarists, as did Segovia, Bream and Williams. Is that possible?
DJB

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