Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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Jean-François Delcamp
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Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:43 am

Hello everyone,

A reminder of the aim of the forum:

Delcamp.net is a collaborative site based on the simple principle that higher level guitarists provide encouragement to those just beginning. In a few years, when those beginners have advanced, they in their turn will help and encourage other newcomers. Thus, whether you are an amateur, an eternal beginner or a professional, you will find on this forum expertise, understanding, and readily offered support.

It sounds stupid, I know, but nevertheless I ask you all to be as pleasant and friendly to one another as possible.

I'll explain:
In real life, in a fit of temper, sometimes you get into a shouting match and say "Go to hell!" to someone you love. When you are under stress, it provides a safety valve and no serious harm comes of it. On this forum it's not like life - when you say something unpleasant to someone, the words stay there to be read every day by dozens or hundreds of other people for years to come.

There has been talk recently of "the right to forget" on the internet. And I think that's a good idea, because the internet is different from reality, in that a posted message remains fixed, whereas its author and recipient continue to develop. And furthermore on the forum you can't see the poster of the message or hear their tone of voice in order to interpret their intentions.

We need to try harder to understand one another and resist the urge to reply in anger or in haste, remembering that a hurtful or belittling reply says more about its author than about the person addressed.

Jean-François Delcamp and the moderator team
:( + ♫ = :)

John O

Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by John O » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:38 pm

It's very easy to take refuge in the anonymity of the internet and say things one wouldn't dare to in person. Overall, I think the tone here is quite pleasant and encouraging--certainly better than the Rec.Music.Classical.Guitar newsgroup! Certain artists seem to bring out the worst in people here, but aside from a recent spat, this is a positive-minded bunch and I thoroughly enjoy visiting the site.

Alan Green
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Alan Green » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:00 pm

Fugue wrote:... this is a positive-minded bunch and I thoroughly enjoy visiting the site.

+1 - I have the Delcamp forum page permanently open on a tab in my browser so it looks like I never go home


Alan

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Anthony Campanella
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Anthony Campanella » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:51 pm

Jean-François Delcamp wrote: We need to try harder to understand one another and resist the urge to reply in anger or in haste, remembering that a hurtful or belittling reply says more about its author than about the person addressed.
These are words to live by :bravo: :merci:

Jeremiah Lawson
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Jeremiah Lawson » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:21 pm

Actually, at the risk of seeming contrarian, I find life on-line is easiest on-line when you assume the rules of conduct are the same as they are in real life.

1) no matter what your name or pseudonym everything you put on the internet is, in principle, potentially public record. Behave on the internet the way you would in public. Speak in a way so that you always take responsibility for what you said.

2) the things you say on the internet must of necessity be considered a matter of public record, even if you are registered on a private website. If three hundred people are on a website you post on and you make an inflammatory remark about someone's character that could still be grounds for a libel suit if what you said damages the person's reputation.

3) if you post "in character" and are posting "as a character" then you should ask yourself questions about your, er, character.

4) Your responsibility not to be misunderstood is greater than another person's responsibility to understand. This was useful advice I got about scoring music and I think it applies to a lot of other things. What does a bad writer do when misunderstood? The writer assumes the problem is that most people don't know how to read.

If this seems like a lot of soap boxing, please bear with me, I studied journalism in my college years. If you go on the internet realizing stray words can get you sued or put you on a telemarketer's list selling you stuff how would you behave? That's probably how best to behave on a public forum.

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Charlie Schultz
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Charlie Schultz » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:37 pm

I guess we should be thankful that international diplomacy is not carried out on internet forums. :wink:

jbtaylor892

Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by jbtaylor892 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:32 pm

Thanks for the message! I love that fact that someone else feels the same way I do. The internet is a dangerous place to speak your mind openly!

JB

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Vesuvio
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Vesuvio » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:09 pm

WenatcheeTheHatchet wrote:...I find life on-line is easiest on-line when you assume the rules of conduct are the same as they are in real life.

1) no matter what your name or pseudonym everything you put on the internet is, in principle, potentially public record. Behave on the internet the way you would in public. Speak in a way so that you always take responsibility for what you said.

2) the things you say on the internet must of necessity be considered a matter of public record, even if you are registered on a private website. If three hundred people are on a website you post on and you make an inflammatory remark about someone's character that could still be grounds for a libel suit if what you said damages the person's reputation.

3) if you post "in character" and are posting "as a character" then you should ask yourself questions about your, er, character.

4) Your responsibility not to be misunderstood is greater than another person's responsibility to understand. This was useful advice I got about scoring music and I think it applies to a lot of other things. What does a bad writer do when misunderstood? The writer assumes the problem is that most people don't know how to read...
What sensible advice!

Best wishes, V :)
"There are only two things worth aiming for, good music and a clean conscience." Paul Hindemith

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Cary W
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Cary W » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:00 pm

Good advice Mr. Delcamp. :idea:
2008 Yamaha GC31C Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ46
1987 Yamaha GC-3 Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ45

dogonjon

Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by dogonjon » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:43 am

I am glad this is being addressed here. I hope it spreads to other technologies. I find that texting often occurs with similar haste and anger.

Joe de V
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Joe de V » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:40 am

Yes indeed - We are here because we love the classical guitar and want to learn and exchange views and ideas about the music with each other.
Some of us tend to forget that purpose and at times their message come accross as a "dictum" spoken from a God or Head of State.
We (at least I do) need all the help and advise from those more skillful and experience players in this forum.
Some of it is very useful to me and other comment strengthen some priveous views and a few are of lesser value but still informative.
The more participation the better for everyone. We don't want to turn anyone off. We need all the classical players we can get
Let's be grateful that we have this international forum - There is nothing else like this in the entire web.
Be courteous and you will fill rewarded for your participation.
Wish you all a healthy and musically fruitfull new year

Sean

Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Sean » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:06 am

I agree with WenatcheeTheHatchet's post; indeed, wiser words on the subject won't be found. Delcamp is, as Fugue noted, a different forum than most others. I like to think that civility resides here, even when disagreements arise - and they will. The words we choose do provide a glimpse into our character, or at least the character others perceive us to have.

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Jose-Guitarra8a
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by Jose-Guitarra8a » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:20 am

This is why I love this forum. It does not matter where we are in our journey because we are united in our passion for the classical guitar. Thank you for creating this nurturing forum. :merci:

jjohn

Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by jjohn » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:51 pm

You are very kind Mr.Delcamp.Thank you for saying that.

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alaudacorax
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Re: Things are different on the forum than in real life ...

Post by alaudacorax » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:47 pm

WenatcheeTheHatchet wrote:Your responsibility not to be misunderstood is greater than another person's responsibility to understand. This was useful advice I got about scoring music and I think it applies to a lot of other things. What does a bad writer do when misunderstood? The writer assumes the problem is that most people don't know how to read.
I think this is a really key point. With online squabbles you can often see that the two original combatants are seeing two different things in the same group of words (the 'comments' sections on YouTube are full of examples). I'm not sure I would put the responsibility quite so firmly on one side, though: if I'm offended, I think I have some responsibility, before going further, to look for the possibility that that wasn''t what the other person had intended - some people just can't express themselves very well.
Jean-François Delcamp wrote:We need to try harder to understand one another and resist the urge to reply in anger or in haste
In the end, I think this is what it all boils down to.

Respectfully,
Paul G.

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