Any success stories of those that began learning as adults?

[apak]

When reading the bios of world class players, and also of those that are sufficiently proficient even if not professional guitarists, there is no shortage of evidence supporting that if you have been playing and consistently practicing since you were 6 years old, you are almost guaranteed to be successful.

I don't know about you, but sometimes hearing these stories only serves to bring down even more in those moments of despair, when I wonder if I will ever be as good as I want to be.

I should be clear, I do not mean I have unrealistic expectations. I do realize that likes of Christopher Parkening and John Williams have very exceptionally well-trained for ungodly number of years, and with all the optimism in the world, I may not be as good as them even if I dedicate 8 hours of training a day for the next three decades. HOWEVER, what I am talking about here is that baseline level of competency that once we reach, we can say confidently "yes, I do play the classical guitar". While that "baseline" is different for everyone, it is a feeling of arrival we all can recognize. As a ESL student, I know for a fact that such a thing exists: that sudden feeling that one day you realize "yes, I do speak English", even if you are not denying that there is so much more you still have to learn. I also had a similar experience when learning dance, as well as other endeavors in life. But in those things I always knew it was possible, I had seen others around me achieve them, and knew it was just a matter of time and dedication before I could reach that baseline level. I have not heard such stories from late-starting CG players. Or if I have it is usually something along the lines of "Oh no, I didn't start playing CG until I was 25, but I was in a rock band for 10 years before that, and 5 years before that my parents put me through jazz lessons etc etc etc).

So I would like reach out to "good players" here who started learning classical guitar as an adult from a very beginner stage - if they actually do exist - to please share their stories of success in achieving a baseline level of competency (say for example, ability to play level 7 or 8 material with okay musical expression and fluidity). For your information, I am 27 now, and have been playing CG seriously for a little more than 6-7 months, but a year before that I doodled around randomly on a steel string guitar.

P.S. I am aware how subjective the idea of "good" "competent" "proficient" in playing is , and all sorts of discussions can be had about how the mastery of guitar can never be achieved but it is a lifetime journey etc etc etc. But indulge me, and let's accept that there is a level where you can call yourself a good player and not be accused of being delusional.

[Trondis23]

I think that Ralph Towner started playing the guitar at age 24. He already had a conservatory degree in piano then. I also think that Hopkinson Smith started quite late. But the majority of the world class players started very young, of course.

Which reminds me, I have to buy a guitar for my 6 year old son. He keeps asking me to teach him.

[Cincy2]

Perhaps there are those more qualified that I to comment but....

I started CG a little over 3 years ago at the age of 55. I'm making steady progress. I'm not limited by my age. The success I've had elsewhere in life taught me that to achieve profieciency in ANY endeavor, you require only three things:

1. Desire to achieve
2. Committment to focused effort with critical self evaluation and appropriate corrective action
3. A knowledgeable mentor or teacher to guide you past obstacles

The pace of advancement is only limited by yourself. I don't believe in the concept of "talent".

You can be as good as you want to be if you can pay the price (time, self sacrifice, effort)

Good luck,
Cincy

[Cary W]

One of my favourite players, Norbert Kraft, came to the guitar relatively late...age 17.

It is true many concert players start very young. If your goal is simply to be good enough to entertain a few friends, then you are not too late. Skills can be learned at any age.

Don`t give up!

[Rod]

Cincy and I are very similar. 55 and I've got grade 3 coming up in a month or so. Although I am constantly plagued by doubts when confronted by a new, challenging piece it normally comes out alright in the end which suggests to me that there is no real reason why I should not, technically, get to grade 8. My biggest issue though is memory. I really can't manage without the music, at least as an aide memoire. And I can't see that improving with age! (my wife wants me to eat more brocolli but I can't remember why)

Rod

[Ángel de Vicente]

Perhaps there are those more qualified that I to comment but....

I started CG a little over 3 years ago at the age of 55. I'm making steady progress. I'm not limited by my age. The success I've had elsewhere in life taught me that to achieve profieciency in ANY endeavor, you require only three things:

1. Desire to achieve
2. Committment to focused effort with critical self evaluation and appropriate corrective action
3. A knowledgeable mentor or teacher to guide you past obstacles

I would also add "time", which is difficult to get as an adult. I am good at my work because I spent thousands of hours learning (university, scholarships, previous jobs, etc.). Now I'm also trying to improve my guitar skills at 38, but work and family commitments mean that I can spend perhaps an hour maximum per day. If I were rich and I could dedicate as much effort as I wanted to the guitar, I'm sure that it would be possible to become quite competent at it, and I'm sure it is the same with most adult learners out there...

Ángel

[Les Backshall]

Apak, I think your expectations are entirely realistic, and would encourage you to set out to achieve your goals. Good luck, and why not let us know how you are progressing?

Cincy, glad to hear you're making good progress with the guitar. Whilst I agree with the general thrust and sentiment of your post, I hope you don't mind if I respond to a few points.

I'm not limited by my age.

I rather think you are - everybody is. You have ony to watch a video of any musical 'great' playing at an advanced age to to realise how their physical abilities have declined over the years. When I was younger, I could sail through grade 8 pieces with no problems; now I have great difficulty in managing big stretches and very fast passages. So I now take pleasure in less technically demanding music.

..I don't believe in the concept of "talent".

Whatever you choose to call it, there is no doubt that some people have a 'facility' that enables then to progress much quicker and further than others.

You can be as good as you want to be if you can pay the price (time, self sacrifice, effort)

Again I rather think that it depends on how good you actually do want to be. If you want to be as good as John Williams, for example, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

It's great to be able to take a positive attitude to any endeavour and I admire the determination that makes people want to be the best they can. However, I do think that expectations need to be tempered by realism.

Les

[jimmyblues]

Hi all,

Without wanting to get sucked into the talent/practice debate, if anyone is interested in the comments Les is making, comared to say, those by Cincy2, then they should check out this thread which covers the same area in great detail:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20800&hilit=a+question+of+talent

cheers

jdc

[GuitarVlog]

I would also add "time", which is difficult to get as an adult. I am good at my work because I spent thousands of hours learning (university, scholarships, previous jobs, etc.). Now I'm also trying to improve my guitar skills at 38, but work and family commitments mean that I can spend perhaps an hour maximum per day. If I were rich and I could dedicate as much effort as I wanted to the guitar, I'm sure that it would be possible to become quite competent at it, and I'm sure it is the same with most adult learners out there...

Agreed. Time is a crucial element. I believe there are (relative) success stories with other instruments, but the individuals there were able to dedicate a considerable amount of hours each day to learning their instrument.

[Denian Arcoleo]

Hi all,

Without wanting to get sucked into the talent/practice debate, if anyone is interested in the comments Les is making, comared to say, those by Cincy2, then they should check out this thread which covers the same area in great detail:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20800&hilit=a+question+of+talent
cheersjdc

Phew, thanks for that link. We don't want to go through this again!

[jimmyblues]

Hi all,

Without wanting to get sucked into the talent/practice debate, if anyone is interested in the comments Les is making, comared to say, those by Cincy2, then they should check out this thread which covers the same area in great detail:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20800&hilit=a+question+of+talent
cheersjdc

Phew, thanks for that link. We don't want to go through this again!

Ha ha! yes, I could see the stormclouds brewing a mile off!

[Les Backshall]

Hi all,

Without wanting to get sucked into the talent/practice debate, if anyone is interested in the comments Les is making, comared to say, those by Cincy2, then they should check out this thread which covers the same area in great detail:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20800&hilit=a+question+of+talent
cheersjdc

Phew, thanks for that link. We don't want to go through this again!

Come on guys, we have extended threads on 'rest stroke/free stroke' and 'Segovia was great/no he was crap' at least every two weeks. What's wrong with rehearsing a little 'nature/nurture' now and again?

Les

[jimmyblues]

Come on guys, we have extended threads on 'rest stroke/free stroke' and 'Segovia was great/no he was crap' at least every two weeks. What's wrong with rehearsing a little 'nature/nurture' now and again?

Les

aha...well fair enough then, Les...in which case [steps back two paces]... ding! ding! seconds out..rou-u-u-u-n-nd one...

[Denian Arcoleo]

Come on guys, we have extended threads on 'rest stroke/free stroke' and 'Segovia was great/no he was crap' at least every two weeks. What's wrong with rehearsing a little 'nature/nurture' now and again?
Les

Fair enough Les .
I've just put up a couple of videos of a young guitarist I found on youtube by chance,
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=53257
This young man is the real deal.
Now, if I were to be frank, there are millions of upon millions of people who could practice hard for 20,000 hours (twice the 'mastery' limit) and they wouldn't reach half of this guys' ability on the instrument. It's just a simple (but harsh) fact of life.
I'm not disputing the need for hard work though; everyone needs to put in the hours to be any good on an instrument like ours. It's just that some people will go further technically and musically than others.

[malc laney]

Music is not sport, so we accept there are only a few places available for "greats", and "genius" the rest of us get on and find our niche a bit like any mollusc [stick with it]