Giuliani: any comments?

[midiaxbill]

Hi. I'm researching 'Expanding the Classical Guitar Canon' and I noticed Giuliani wrote for guitar and piano. To be honest, I have a very low opinion of his work. so maybe one of you can put me onto his 'good stuff'. I had a crack at the opus 92 pot pourri and it struck me as one of the worst compositions Ive ever looked at. from a researchers point of view, quite useful but not my cup of tea as a musician. Am I wrong?

[Cincy2]

Everyone has different tastes. Some of his music does not interest me put there are some beautiful works I love. The rather simple Theme and Variations on La Folie Espagne Opus 45 is lots of fun to play. His Rossiniana Opus 119 - 121 are fantastic examples of how the guitar can become an orchestra in your lap. David Russell has some beautiful interpretations on YouTube.

Cincy

[Tiago]

Check out Op. 65 played by Pepe Romero.

[Kent]

I posted this recently;
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62862

[maxixe]

I happen to love Giulani, but totally understand peoples gripes about. Honestly, the ultimate game changer for me was hearing Angel Romero do the Rossinian. I don't believe they are released on CD but not that hard to find the Vinyl. Op. 121 suddenly made sense and didn't put me to sleep. I'd whole heartedly give his renditions a listen before you completely turn away from the G-man! The Rossinian are very easy to snooze through and play a bit dry ... Angel attacks them like an orchestra and brings them to life.

[Toccata]

To me, his music is superficially pleasant, but it's also rather vapid and displays a serious lack of imagination when it comes to development in his variations and sonatas.

[Prominent Critic]

He was a very good mayor of New York.

Ramon

[Gaius46]

He was a very good mayor of New York.

Ramon

Sone residents of New York might disagree with you.

I like Giuliani. I find his arpeggio studies and scalar studies (Op 1 parts 1 and 2) to be challenging and the works of his students seem to me to be more melodic than I'm used to hearing in student works.

[kurt guitar]

his fuge is kinda cute.

[Scot Tremblay]

I happen to love Giuliani as well...but IMO the biggest issue facing his music today is the instrument. The modern guitar is just the wrong instrument for most of his opus. I struggled with Giulianis' music for years before I discovered the 19th century guitar, then all those insipid little melodies and "blathering ons" make perfect sense in the context of the instrument and the venues they were intended for.

David Starobin told me that he would not play Giuliani if not for the 19th century guitar. And I have to agree with that sentiment.

So, I sympathize with those that find Giuliani problimatic but it's worth the effort to give it a chance with the correct instrument. But don't expect Beethoven.

[Toccata]

I happen to love Giuliani as well...but IMO the biggest issue facing his music today is the instrument. The modern guitar is just the wrong instrument for most of his opus. I struggled with Giulianis' music for years before I discovered the 19th century guitar, then all those insipid little melodies and "blathering ons" make perfect sense in the context of the instrument and the venues they were intended for.

David Starobin told me that he would not play Giuliani if not for the 19th century guitar. And I have to agree with that sentiment.

So, I sympathize with those that find Giuliani problimatic but it's worth the effort to give it a chance with the correct instrument. But don't expect Beethoven.

A different instrument is not going to change the notes--it might make some of the works easier to play, but the quality of the music isn't going to suddenly improve!

[Scot Tremblay]

A different instrument is not going to change the notes--it might make some of the works easier to play, but the quality of the music isn't going to suddenly improve!

Very true, Toccata, and I totally agree with you. However, I never said and hopefully didn't imply, that the quality of the music will be better or the notes change to great art simply by playing it on the appropriate instrument. I merely put it out there that

"all those insipid little melodies and "blathering ons" make perfect sense in the context of the instrument and the venues they were intended for."

Giuliani was big news for much of his time in Vienna but his published music wasn't intended for the concert stage as we know it today. He was filling a niche inhabited mainly by wealthy amatures and aficionados in which the guitar was blooming and needing a repertoire of accessable music...."show tunes" and entertaining albeit intellectually unchallenging melodies they may be but they were an easy sell for his publishers and very popular with his patrons. If one takes [most of] his music out of that context and tries to make it comparable to the great Viennese composers (Beethoven, Franz Schubert...) of his time it just doesn't match up. But if approached being mindful of the world it was intended, I believe, it to be charming and quite enjoyable.

As to the instrument, it's not just about being easier to play. It's about the technique, tone, timber, sustain, attack/decay, volume etc. All these things are quite different in the 19th century instrument and were the aesthetics of the guitar that Giuliani was familiar with and writing for. To apply the large sound of the modern instrument to his music just does not work IMO and it is perfectly understandable why so many, who might have no experience beyond that instrument, have issues with most of his output.

[60moo]

To me, his music is superficially pleasant, but it's also rather vapid and displays a serious lack of imagination when it comes to development in his variations and sonatas.

That's a fair call. To my ears there is a certain sameness in a lot of his output. However, the exceptions are quite outstanding. In addition to the Rossinianae mentioned, there's plenty of charm and drama in the following works:

(i) Sonata in C (Opus 15);
(ii) Sonata Eroica (Op. 150);
(iii) Concerto in A for Guitar and Orchestra (Op. 30)

Perhaps it takes a certain player (John Williams has great recordings of these) to bring out the best? The Concerto is clearly one of the finest concertos in the entire guitar repertoire.

[Non Tabius]

I think that we must bear in mind the market demands of the period as it was in those days Giuliani (1781-1820) and the music to be composed for those particular audiences moving from the Royal Elite(Mozart Hayden) to the post French Revolutionary period of Sor,Carcassi, Beethoven to name a few.Giuliani played Cello under the baton of Beethoven from what I have read.It could therefore be fairly assumed that he would have had an idea of what is to be composed to meet market demands even though he might not have enjoyed composing a particular piece but still having to keep things relatively simple or even repitative (ie period of Theme and Variations on previous periods).
A situation analogous to what Pop music is today in order to put food on the table,composers have to almost sell their souls by repeating,or having to "just keep it country" to meet client demands.I am by no means comparing Beethoven and Giuliani,but Beethoven did say words this effect "You would think that Fur Elise was the only piece I ever wrote".I believe that we should at least try an view the compostions in the context of the period and audience they were written for ,before applying contemporary or modern period tastes.Edit Sorry it was Moonlght Sonata that Beethoven was refering to.

[Praeludium]

My teacher told me Giuliani has written some very interesting lieder, with some Schubertian harmonies, so at least there is this.
His Sonata op15 is also a very nice piece of music.
His Fughettas op115 and 118 are cute pieces too, very charming and they're actually sounding great for what they're

Mainly, his early Vienna period is the more interesting to me...

For me his interest lies primarily in the fact that this kind of composers show how bad music age when it's only about nice little things to please people.