Advice on judging sound of a new (not opened up) guitar?

[wechard]

Hi Everyone,

Pretty soon I'm going to be shopping for a spruce-top classical. My budget will be about 2-3k Canadian, so I'll be looking either at the mid-high end of factory instruments or the lower end of luthier-built. Since many people say that spruce opens up noticeably over a fairly long playing period, I'm wondering if there are any generalizations that can be made about exactly how the sound or response will change. In other words, if I'm listening to a new instrument is it possible to visualize what it might sound and feel like after it has opened up? Or am I better not worrying about it, and just going for the instrument that seems best as it is right now?

[Cincy2]

Depends.... If you want this instrument to be the last guitar you ever buy, I wouldn't choose Spruce for the soundboard, I'd choose cedar. They show their character earlier. I've owned Spruce soundboard instruments that never fully opened up or achieved their full potential well after the purchase and never fully met my needs or expectations. I sold those guitars.

My characterization of Spruce vs Cedar is my personal observation. Others may disagree.

CIncy

[Neptune]

I grew up around mostly spruce guitars and have seen a number of fine instruments "open up" through the years. My father owned several R.L. Mattingly guitars in the early 80's and I hear them today as aged beautifully! For my own instruments, I have both an engleman and german spruce guitars. After 11 years with the first, it is quite different from when i bought it. While my german top is not as old and recently bought, I can say that after just a few months that is changing in sound. My advice is to ask yourself whether you like the tone of the instrument (after you've figured that you can live with its playability). If you like the tone, then go for it. If you put in time everyday, you will notice.

about your question as to what an opened up guitar sounds like. I found that the guitars that i've opened up have become a bit more "woody" or "looser", "warmer"....these sort of things. I know those are bit general terms but that's how can describe it.

and as funny as it sounds, you ever see a good looking younger person and pretty much can figure out that when they mature, they will be quite striking in appearance? sort of the same here with the guitar in its sound. if you like it to begin with it already has potential:)

[Erik Zurcher]

I believe that the whole issue of opening up a spruce guitar is highly exaggerated. Buy a guitar for its sound and if it is a spruce top guitar, it will only get better. However, don't buy it if you don't like the sound already on the promise that will get better.

[GuitarVlog]

... don't buy it if you don't like the sound already on the promise that will get better.

My sentiments as well. "Opening up" is icing on a good cake.

All my guitars are spruce. It's not that I don't like cedar guitars. I just went looking for tones that I like and it turned out that the guitars I liked after doing comparisons had spruce tops.

[Neptune]

All my guitars are spruce. It's not that I don't like cedar guitars. I just went looking for tones that I like and it turned out that the guitars I liked after doing comparisons had spruce tops.

BINGO

[petermc61]

I believe that the whole issue of opening up a spruce guitar is highly exaggerated. Buy a guitar for its sound and if it is a spruce top guitar, it will only get better. However, don't buy it if you don't like the sound already on the promise that will get better.

Erik

I am not sure it is so exaggerated as you think, but then again I am not sure what claims for change you have heard. I have a brand new Englemann top guitar from the excellent Australian luthier Dan Kellaway, with four days and about 7 hours playing time on her and the changes are clearly audible in the very early hours. The midrange (b and g strings) are clearer and more open, the bottom E noticeably more character (brand new it lacked a little tonal richness and sounded a little tubby), the top E has started to glow in the higher frets already. Dan warned me that it would sound good out of the box (he was right there), that I would see noticeable improvement over the first two to three weeks (he seems on track for that as well given the changes to date) and to expect further more gradual changes over the next 2-3 years as conventional wisdom for spruce tops suggests. All I can say is that I have been a little surprised at both the amount and speed of change I have witnessed - then again, this might also be because I underestimated the changes that might occur.

Regards

Peter

[wechard]

Thanks everyone, this is useful. So I'll bracket the opening-up thing as a possible bonus, but make buying decisions based only on how the instruments currently sound and feel.

[Hayden]

Is it true there are some luthiers who are better either with just spruce or cedar. I mean if you were to order a Spruce top from him when his forte is actually on Cedar the guitar won't be as good? There are some dealers who advise me on that. I always have the experience when ordering a guitar via the net and when this brand new guitar arrives I don't really like the tone but the luthier would ask you to wait for several months and by then the return warranty lapsed. And I an stuck with the guitar, and the luthier runs away!
Secondly, I have been using ToneRite on my new guitars but I am not too sure whether it really works?

[harryf]

I have bought two brand new spruce guitars in the last year. The sound when new for both of them was like playing in a closet. The least expensive guitar ($1,000) sounded like playing in a closet surrounded by clothes. The more expensive one ($3,800) sounded like playing in an empty closet. As time went by, they sounded more like playing in a bathroom - more alive and vibrant. But the basic qualities of each guitar were evident throughout the whole process - richness of tone, sustain, tonal balance etc. The only thing I noticed was the least expensive guitar got much louder over time (I kept my old cedar guitar as a constant comparison). The other guitar is only a couple of months old so I have yet to see how it finally turns out.

[GuitarVlog]

Secondly, I have been using ToneRite on my new guitars but I am not too sure whether it really works?

A ToneRite merely plays-in your instrument. That's something you can do yourself assuming your practice or play enough.

A guitar opening-up depends on sub-cellular changes in the wood over time along with playing it.

In any case, there's no guarantee that this process will take place. I was told of the first-hand experience of a rather well-known classical guitar professional who procured a luthier-built instrument. It didn't open-up. The lesson of the story is to never buy a guitar on the promise that it will sound better. Make sure you like it from the get-go.

[Neptune]

I have bought two brand new spruce guitars in the last year. The sound when new for both of them was like playing in a closet. The least expensive guitar ($1,000) sounded like playing in a closet surrounded by clothes. The more expensive one ($3,800) sounded like playing in an empty closet. As time went by, they sounded more like playing in a bathroom .

Be careful! You might find in a few years it will sound like you're in a beautiful field of daisies, birds chirping and water rushing down a lovely stream