Romanillos rosette

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments

Romanillos rosette

Postby gabasa » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:41 am

Here's a question that came up in a conversation earlier tonight. Does anybody know, or is there a resource that shows how to make the inner and outer strips of the Romanillos rosette? The strip where the diamonds are?

Thanks,
Gord
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby Eric Reid » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:49 am

I have some wonderful video footage of Paracho luthier, Gabriel Hernandez, making a Romanillos style rosette. Unfortunately, it is analog footage, and I lack the tech savvy, and the equipment to post it on the internet. Any volunteers? I'll try to attach a photo of the rosette he did for me.[attachment=0]rosette shrunk 2.JPG
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby David Schramm » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:58 am

This article by Greg Byer's will help you: http://luth.org/backissues/al81-84/al84.htm
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby strings » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:38 am

Here is Romanillos describing how he makes his rosette. I don't think you will be able to make one from his description , but it will give you an idea of what is involved.Taken from a recording, so somethings may not make much senses"

I make a sandwich of the colours for the arch,and it is cut into wedges,which are then put together.I make it about 100mm,enough for quit a few rosettes.This is Laburnum,it has a very close grain.I've done the column in many different ways,now I use a circular saw to rebate it,then fit the other pieces into it. The basic method is to build the rosette around a metal tube,the diameter is slightly more than the sound hole.The various sections of the sandwich and the flat veneers are laid round the tube and then an aluminium strip is clamped around it all.This keeps everything in place until the glue is dry.Finally ,slices are cut off.Just the required thickness for one rosette at a time.
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby Francesco Carlo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:32 am

Hello,
on youtube there are few videos on how to build a rosette.
Those from luthier Michael Thames are very good.
Cheers
Francesco
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby David LaPlante » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:42 pm

Jose' Romanillos used to make his rosettes up "en mass" around a cylinder way back in the 70s and 80s when he was at peak production. These days for his occasional guitar he assembles the rosette elements directly into the top one guitar at a time.
Here are a few original Romanillos marquetry samples which I obtained from Jose' in the summer of 2007.
Are the three at the top the sort of rosette border that you were thinking of?
RomanillosInlay.jpg

RomanillosInlay2.jpg

Jose' shows how to make this "diamond" inlay on pg. 165 of his wonderful book on Torres. The middle one of course is a combination of flat lay-up and the addition of the diamond elements.
Courtnall pg. 135 also shows how the center "arches " figure is made.
It's important to note that the two lower strips have the border attached to one side only. When installed, the other border is added as a separate strip. Otherwise a completely assembled strip might buckle as it's bent around the curve.
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby Waddy Thomson » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:56 pm

Courtnall's book has the rosette laid out in it, with the different segments, including the diamond perimeter, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby gabasa » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:21 pm

This is great info guys. Those are great photos, David, and your reference to the Torres book is valuable!
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby guitar56 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:27 pm

Romanillos I believe has the most beautiful of all the rossetes I've seen on any guitar... I wish to one day replicate this guitar for my own. Thanks for the photos of these guitars.
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby ThomDl » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:25 pm

Rather than just copy his work overtly, I take several things from it:

- Make your own original design

- Use all natural colour for ease of sourcing and authenticity

- Use a simple form

- Draw form from relevant environmental/cultural inspirations

- Make it comparatively simple, or at least not too fiddly

I'm still working on it....
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby Waddy Thomson » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:54 am

Yeah, I choose to believe it's his trademark! Design your own rosettes.
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby Alan Carruth » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:35 am

Romanillos' side grain Moorish arches rosette was what inspired me to make my own side grain 'braid' and 'interlace' designs. Maybe mine are not as beautiful as his, but they're _my_ designs, and they're not like anything else out there that I've seen. The rosette is one of the few places on the guitar where the maker can be original and creative, so why would you want to copy somebody elses' designs? Who's guitar is it, anyway?
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby Tom Blackshear » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:26 pm

Alan Carruth wrote:Romanillos' side grain Moorish arches rosette was what inspired me to make my own side grain 'braid' and 'interlace' designs. Maybe mine are not as beautiful as his, but they're _my_ designs, and they're not like anything else out there that I've seen. The rosette is one of the few places on the guitar where the maker can be original and creative, so why would you want to copy somebody elses' designs? Who's guitar is it, anyway?



Al,

Many builders today don't want to spend time making their own designs. I contracted Japan to do my ideas of the old Spanish masters for many years and it saves me a lot of time having to make my own, which I did for the first 20 years. I have found that the majority of the market will identify with Spanish styles more than any other style, so I have geared my work toward this end. But to each his own, as they say.
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby mancas » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:35 pm

Regarding the design of a rossette from scratch, you might want to check this: http://www.connorguitars.com/links_tips/rosettes.html

:bye:

PS: Somebody in another thread mentioned that the graph paper could be substituted by the Paint application on Windows or any other similar PC program. I think it's a great idea. I've also seen some icon making programs that could be really useful designing a rossette.
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Re: Romanillos rosette

Postby ThomDl » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:31 pm

The reasons I wanted to go in the direction of making my own, and I still am using up pre-mades, is because I think I can explain why I would do that more than the cost saving idea. I hope it will be part of aligning myself with the enormous effort players put into playing, for which there are as yet no pills or shortcuts. But it does depend on coming up with a good design, that is practical. All part of not having a presence yet.
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