BBC programme on Madagascar, Lemurs and Guitar trade

[Winterdune]

Very interesting programme on BBC2 in the UK this evening, charting the illegal logging of Madagascar's protected forests. It shows timber yards piled high with rosewood and with ebony fingerboard blanks - mountains of them, all taken from 'protected' forests. Most was being exported to China, but a big amount was going to Gibson in the States. It includes an interview with the chief exec of Gibson. Really worth watching on iPlayer if you missed it - it's called "The Natural World: Madagascar, Lemurs and Spies".

Sean

[Les Backshall]

I missed that one Sean, thanks for flagging it up. Truly depressing to see all that illegal ebony piled up. And somewhat less than impressed with the Gibson CEO.

Les

[leelee]

I watched and thought the programme didn't make a clear connection between the endangered status of the silky sifaka and logging, illegal or otherwise. They didn't demonstrate the species was dependent upon rosewood or ebony trees - quite the opposite, because the varied nature of the diet has prevented captive conservation or development, that they were hunted for food, or that logging was disruptive to reproduction other than by inference. Cutesy creatures, nasty poor people, heroic Americans, scientists and law enforcers. EIA footage here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7gaSpcyAXI and more here http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... 4.2.1l15l0 I've not read it yet, but the report is online also. Often one sees the argument that it's the building or furniture trades that are the problem, driving the harvesting of these timbers. It's the first time i've seen large pieces of rosewood furniture!

[Winterdune]

The connection claimed was quite clear I thought - habitat disturbance. I agree that the narrative was somewhat hackneyed though...

[Adam S D]

I watched and thought the programme didn't make a clear connection between the endangered status of the silky sifaka and logging, illegal or otherwise.

And they are hunted for food by the loggers. The removal of the trees might be having a minimal impact, but the logging trade is having a serious impact. I do think it's unfortunate though that small independent luthiers have been caught up in what is really an issue caused by much larger companies engaging in an industrial exploitation of the forests.

[Peter Oberg]

The current state of things in Madagascar is incredibly tenuous-watch this if you intend to make any guitars with rosewood from this country. I for one am really starting to feel like building only with domestic lumber. So many of the trees we use take decades to grow and their harvesting is clearly contributing to a blight affecting in some small way all of us. A necessary evil you say? A conflict for all of us to consider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7gaSpcyAXI

And...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXD_ATgLyak

Skip ahead to 14:17, unless you are interested in the plight of the Malagasy people, and what's going on there now.
p

[erictjie]

same thing happening in Borneo where they burnt portion of the forest for palm tree plantations.

[Winterdune]

I for one am really starting to feel like building only with domestic lumber. So many of the trees we use take decades to grow and their harvesting is clearly contributing to a blight affecting in some small way all of us.

p

Me too. I'm still on my first guitar and already have the rosewood but I think my next will have back and sides from something grown in the UK. Anyone tried cherry?

Sean

[mqbernardo]

never tried cherry,but Andy Manson swears by it.

[Dave1947]

The 2 areas where most of the illegal wood come from are Madagascar and Africa mainly because of weak or corrupt govenments. I wouldn't buy a guitar made from Madagascar Rosewood or any African wood until things get straightened out.

[AdamX]

Dave, I basically agree, but at least some woods seem to be being managed in a sustainable manner. African Blackwood comes to mind.

[Adam S D]

Dave, I basically agree, but at least some woods seem to be being managed in a sustainable manner. African Blackwood comes to mind.

Actually, African Blackwood is becoming increasingly scarce. I remember a talk in college about it, I forget the details exactly, but this quote from wikipedia more or less covers it.

"Due to overuse, the mpingo tree is severely threatened in Kenya and needing attention in Tanzania and Mozambique. The trees are being harvested at an unsustainable rate, partly because of illegal smuggling of the wood into Kenya, but also because the tree takes upwards of 60 years to mature."

As far as UK woods go, I've seen a cherry guitar that sounded pretty nice (the wood also smells faintly of cherries when you work it, which is nice). Though the obvious choice would be Maple due to it's proven quality for guitar backs and sides. Walnut (both english and american black grow here) is also a good wood for back and sides (though the english variety can be a little on the dull side to look at).

The main problem though as I see it, is convincing players that a guitar does not have to have Brazilian Rosewood back and sides, ebony fingerboard etc in order to be a great guitar.

[Les Backshall]

...Walnut (both english and american black grow here) is also a good wood for back and sides (though the english variety can be a little on the dull side to look at)...

I've actually found the opposite -the american black I got from LMI was so dull and boring I haven't used it; whereas english walnut can be found with some amazing figure. Lacewood, from the Plane tree is another option, although expensive, and there are a few makers using Yew (probaby best laminated).

...The main problem though as I see it, is convincing players that a guitar does not have to have Brazilian Rosewood back and sides, ebony fingerboard etc in order to be a great guitar...

I think this is changing as people become more aware of the issues. I've made and sold several walnut guitars, and have two on commision at the moment (admittedly with ebony fingeroards, though I think that will change as well). If you really want to promote 'alternative' and/or local woods, I think you have to be prepared make a couple of instruments on spec and let people play them.

Les

[Winterdune]

What are the alternatives to Ebony and Rosewood for fingerboards?
Sean

[Praeludium]

About convincing the guitarists, I don't think it's that hard.
The guitar I have at the moment, though definitely not powerful and loud enough, has a spruce top and maple sides and back, and I like the kind of tone it has - and of course the appearance, but it doesn't matter that much.
And I bet I'm not the only one to like something else than cedar and such.


I'd be very curious to know how a walnut guitar sounds !