PU glue

[Slavko Fric]

hi,
will you glue fingerboard with this?

fric

[Marcus Dominelli]

I have no experience with that kind of glue. I think it's important to use a reversible glue on the fingerboard, like hide glue or franklin's original titebond.
The only disadvantage with hide glue in this application is that you can get some back bow from introducing water to the area. Most of this will go away after the joint has dried though.

Dominelli Guitars

[Michael Thames]

hi,
will you glue fingerboard with this?

fric

I prefer epoxy. But PU is a non water based glue and it seems like it would work just fine, however, I must point out Slavko, if you've never used it, clean up is a Beeeatch! For that reason alone I wouldn't use it on the fingerboard.

If you use a water based glue, make sure you put an equal amount of water on the other surface of the fingerboard otherwise you get some nasty swelling...... then wait weeks for the water to leave the board before you true up.

[Michael Thames]

BTW, for the life of me, I don't get the logic of the fingerboard being a removable component of the guitar, in my limited career of guitar making I have never once removed a fingerboard and used it again to glue back on. The amount of heat causing warping, and general discombobulation, make the old fingerboard useless, IMHO. I just make a new fingerboard, why would anyone want to use the old warped fingerboard again?

I'm reasonably sure when someone replaced a Torres fingerboard, back in the day, they tossed out the old one and made a new one.

When ever I had to replace a fingerboard, I simply planed down the existing one until the fret slots were gone then glued on a new board on top of the existing one...... kinda like how the Mayans would build a new pyramid on top of the old one.

[Robert Webster]

The planing method certainly beats the alternative if you're only addressing a fingerboard issue. However, I know that in my earlier days of building, there would be occasions where I would want to retop the guitar for various reasons ( either the sound sucked or it didn't sound good) and then, of course, the fingerboard would have to come off. Ever try to get an epoxy glued fingerboard off? Even so, I also prefer epoxy for fingerboards just to avoid the water issue.

Bob

[mikfik]

I also use epoxy for this glue joint.
Last year I removed one of my fretboards by removing the frets and placing a clothes iron on the fretboard for a few minutes. The fretboard was destroyed in the process but came off fine. Clean-up was easy and I made a new fretboard which went on without a problem.

[Michael Thames]

I also use epoxy for this glue joint.
Last year I removed one of my fretboards by removing the frets and placing a clothes iron on the fretboard for a few minutes. The fretboard was destroyed in the process but came off fine. Clean-up was easy and I made a new fretboard which went on without a problem.

Mikfik, you used an iron to take off the fingerboard with epoxy? Good to know!

[James Lister]

hi,
will you glue fingerboard with this?

fric

The question is why do you want to use it for the fingerboard? There's nothing wrong with using Titebond original or hide glue, and either is more pleasant to work with than PU (or epoxy for that matter).

James

[mikfik]

I should mention that along with the clothes iron I also used a small steam sprayer while I ran a spatula between the fretboard and neck while prying the 2 pieces apart.
It does take quite a bit of heat to loosen the epoxy so make sure most of that heat is directed to the fretboard and not the neck wood.
I was surprised that the job went so smoothly.
I've also used this method at the tail-block and once with a bridge I had epoxied to the top. These were all successful so I thought I would share with you guys.
To James: The reason I go to the trouble of using epoxy for these joints is the fact that the wood being glued doesn't swell from the water introduced by the glue such as tightbond and remains stable and strong under the worst of conditions. I also think epoxy gives a far superior joint whenever end grain is part of the joint (such as tailblock) and assembly time does not have to be rushed because of fast setting glue (bridge).
I don't like to hurry when I glue the bridge, epoxy gives me plenty of time to clamp and if needed- to unclamp and do it again if any problem is discovered. Clean up isn't an issue if surrounding area close to glue joint is taped off first. Any extra epoxy squeeze out is easily worked down with a sharp scraper. Epoxy can be died any color or sanding dust can be added to it to make a great filler.
Epoxy works great for frets also.

[Michael Thames]

To James: The reason I go to the trouble of using epoxy for these joints is the fact that the wood being glued doesn't swell from the water introduced by the glue such as tightbond and remains stable and strong under the worst of conditions.

Some makers don't understand this phenomena well. Some guys think if the joint fits well thats all that matters. I many cases involved in guitar making, this less clamp philosophy doesn't hold up well, because of the swelling problems associated with all water based glues. BTW, gluing on the fingerboard is the ONLY time I use epoxy, and it is well worth the effort, this is where making over 800 guitars and observing neck problems comes in handy, as opposed to hobby makers. There is absolutely no problem with clean up, in fact I use the excess epoxy and work it into the rosette to fill it.

I would never use Titebond to glue on a fingerboard...... IT CREEPS! Every different kinda glue has is strengths and weakness in different applications, and just because you happen to have a bottle of Titebond laying around the shop doesn't mean you should use it for EVERYTHING! I would much prefer hot hide glue over Titebond any day for the fingerboard....... HHG doesn't CREEP! Nor does epoxy! Oh my god!

[James Lister]

I'm glad you find using epoxy works for you Michael!
I've never had any problems using Titebond, so I'll continue to use it!
Hundreds of luthiers have been using Titebond for many years. It works!
Swelling need not be a problem with water based glues! Water based glues have been used for hundreds of years! Many instruments made using water based glues have survived for hundreds of years!
I have no problem with you continuing to use epoxy for your fingerboards, or for any other joints, but please don't try to give the impression that the fact you have made 800 guitars (well done!) means that you know better than everyone else, or that your methods are necessarily the best!

James

P.S. !!!!!

[Jeff Highland]

There are some things that PU is great for. For example I used it for laminating my bending form and the last set of rim molds I made, and for laminating end blocks.
But the foaming squeezout is nasty to cleanup.
I use HHG or epoxy for fretboards, always with a substantial flat caul above and lots of clamps.
If using HHG, I use a heat gun to warm and dry the mating surfaces for 5 minutes before glueup. This seems to avoid any problems with backbow

[Jeremy Clark]

In the past I've used Titebond, epoxy, polyurethane, hide, and fish glue to glue on various fretboards. I've also removed fretboards glued with most of those (the clothes iron trick does work pretty well).

I absolutely agree with Michael's "creep" comment (a fact that makes me shy away from those types of glues for anything structural) and I completely understand the desire not to introduce water to the joint (at one point I had my feet firmly in that camp) but... when you glue the fretboard with a waterproof glue it only leaves one surface to relieve hygroscopic movement. Rather then have the entire neck "organically move together" moisture can only escape through the "top" of the fretboard (and we all know how stable ebony is). I've moved back to just using hide glue. I like to position the fretboard and glue four "little guide blocks" locking the board in position. Slide the board out, apply the glue, and slide it back in. It takes more time to spread the glue than it does to position the board and makes the job practically a walk in the park --or maybe that's a piece of cake while on a walk in the park.

[Jeremy Clark]

oh yeah and if you haven't tried it yet... plain jane white vinegar does a great job cleaning up polyurethane squeeze out and works swell on epoxy too.

[Michael Thames]

I'm glad you find using epoxy works for you Michael!

Yes thanks you.

I've never had any problems using Titebond, so I'll continue to use it!

James, your free to do what you want, this freedom is what gives individual makers their mark in the world. Some makers use HHG, and some makers feel Titebond is good for everything...... that's fine.

Hundreds of luthiers have been using Titebond for many years. It works!

It's a well know fact Titebond creeps James, I've seen bridges on steel string guitars pull forward, with Titebond...... but you say it works, yes it works James, I can't argue with that, so does Elmers.

Swelling need not be a problem with water based glues! Water based glues have been used for hundreds of years! Many instruments made using water based glues have survived for hundreds of years!

Swelling is always a problem with water based glues....... it's a HUGE problem, that's why your "less clamp is better" idea isn't appropriate in the case of water based glues........ oddly enough less clamp is better, idea works great with epoxy. I'm always dealing with the problem on swelling with water based glue, and coming up with ways to deal with this problem.

BTW, I do not consider HHG as in the same camp as Titebond. As we all know HHG doesn't creep! Titebond creeps!

I have no problem with you continuing to use epoxy for your fingerboards, or for any other joints, but please don't try to give the impression that the fact you have made 800 guitars (well done!) means that you know better than everyone else, or that your methods are necessarily the best!

I'm sorry James, I do consider the fact I've made over 800 guitar to be an important thing, why do you think this means I don't know more than someone who has made 75 guitars? I've been able to see my guitars over the course of 40 years, and see what works and what doesn't. This is especially true in regards to the neck and fingerboard, which is the most high maintenance area of the guitar.

I've not criticized you in particular, but have expressed my methods and reasons for doing so. By no means am I suggesting you should discontinue your use of Titebond wherever you feel it's appropriate, please don't inturpit my comments, that I'm telling YOU what to do, this is an open forum and I think it exists to educate others as to the appropriate use of different glues from the view point of a master builder.