Lister Guitar #100

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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James Lister
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Lister Guitar #100

Postby James Lister » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:32 am

Late last year I posted a thread on one of my guitar builds, and someone noticed the number on the label was #097 - and asked about my plans for guitar #100. Well I'm just putting the finishing touches to #099, and have already made a start on #100.

In most ways this guitar will follow my standard design (if it ain't broke...), but one significant departure is in the tonewoods used. The original plan was to use no tropical hardwoods, and for all the woods used to be FSC certified. In the end I wasn't quite able to source all FSC woods, but the top, back and sides, strutting and some of the decorative parts will be from FSC woods, and the remainder will be non-tropical. I did consider using FSC cedrela for the neck (available from Madinter), but in the end went for walnut. The fingerboard will be bog oak - I've bought a couple of blanks, and they look pretty good. The grain is a bit open, and I had thought I'd want to fill it, but one of my students has just completed a guitar will an oak fingerboard from the same supplier, and actually it looks and feels OK with the open grain. Top will be Euro spruce and the back and sides flamed maple (both FSC from Florinett).

I've also designed a new rosette for this guitar. It uses a traditional end grain central section, and there's an excellent thread here by Paul Micheletti on how these are made. The difference with the one I'm making is that I'll be using veneers that have been thicknessed down to 0.33mm, rather than the standard 0.6mm. This will give a "higher resolution" pattern, and as far as I know, no-one has made an end grain pattern this fine before. Each rosette tile will contain 690 pieces - which will mean the end grain part of the complete rosette will contain approximately 27,600 pieces!

I'm not planning a comprehensive build thread for this guitar, but I will be posting pictures of the rosette construction. So far I've glued up all of the veneer stacks, and have made a jig to accurately cut off the very thin strips from the edges. These strips will be scraped down to 0.33mm, so to avoid much wastage, I'm attempting to cut them at 0.5mm with a fine Japanese saw, so that each strip only uses about 1.2mm from each stack. This way, I should be able to get at least 10 rosettes from the fairly large amount of veneers I've used to make the stacks.

The main issue is going to be accurate alignment of the strips cut from the stacks when gluing up to form the log. I've tried to make all the stacks to the same thickness as accurately as possible, but there's still some variation, and the alignment accuracy needs to be within about 0.15mm for the design to look good. It's not too difficult to make a jig to align the pieces accurately, but the problem is that when you add the glue, the strips expand with the moisture, so they get distorted if they are a tight fit in the jig. This wouldn't be a problem if I could clamp them down very quickly, but with this many parts, it's going to take over 5 minutes to glue them all up before I can clamp the jig down. Should be fun.

Anyway, here's a few photos of the early stages of making the rosette:

Guitar 100 (10).JPG


Guitar 100 (20).JPG


DSC_0006g100 (3).JPG


Dsc_0023.jpg


More to follow soon...

James

P.S. There may be a prize (not the guitar!) for the first person to guess the design
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Paul Janssen
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Paul Janssen » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:46 am

Congratulations James. 100 guitars is an amazing achievement. I hope you are planning to keep this for yourself as a momento?

-Paul

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Michael.N.
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Michael.N. » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:12 pm

Many years ago I did a rosette that was 20 x 24. I thought that was a lot! At the time I was using natural veneers and there is always a slight variation in thickness between woods. It can really throw things out, so everything had to go through a pull through. It was a pain. I intend to revive that rosette but just use all dyed Maple veneer. No more thicknessing!
I used powdered resin glue because of it's long open time. Then I found a way to use HHG, 20 or 24 strips glued in less than 4 minutes. My Jig was exactly like the one that James has posted.
0.3 mm is fine. Should be interesting.
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Martin H » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:08 pm

James, I'm just a beginner player with more enthusiasm than talent, but I always read your posts with interest and I very much envy your skill and patience in making such georgeous guitars - it must be very satisfying to have a 'job' that you obviously love.

Many thanks for taking the time to share as much of the builds as you do, it really is fascinating to follow them.

Martin

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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby ric2801 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:56 pm

James Lister, great idea :)
waiting for new pictures, thank you.

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Anthony Campanella
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Anthony Campanella » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:31 am

Congratulations! :bravo:

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petermc61
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby petermc61 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:01 am

I can't wait to see the guitar James, especially that special rosette!

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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby HNLim » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:10 am

Congratulations! Don't forget to add some carving to the headstock and on the wings of the bridge.
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James Lister
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby James Lister » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:59 am

Thanks for the comments and congratulations. :)

Paul Janssen wrote:I hope you are planning to keep this for yourself as a momento?

Unlikely that I'll be keeping this one for myself. It will be my main exhibition guitar for 2015, and if it doesn't sell at any of the three events I have planned, then it will be going up for sale on my website (and probably here as well).

Michael.N. wrote: I intend to revive that rosette but just use all dyed Maple veneer. No more thicknessing!

Even the dyed maple veneers can vary a fair bit. Because I needed them 0.33mm, I had to scrape them all down anyway, but the initial thickness of the white and the various greens varied from 0.48 to 0.65. The Veritas scraper/thicknesser shown in the photo was great for this - much easier and quicker than a pull through scraper.

HNLim wrote:Congratulations! Don't forget to add some carving to the headstock and on the wings of the bridge.

Carving is not really my thing, but there might be a subtle inlay on the head...

James
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Michael.N.
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Michael.N. » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:58 am

I meant buy in a few sheets of plain Maple consecutive veneer and dye my own. That way all the strips should come out at the same thickness, in theory.
I suppose at 0.33 you could just about produce your own veneer from a very sharp Jack Plane, then dye them. Not at that width though!
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Dave M » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:03 pm

Well there's a thought: oak for the fretboard.

It is pretty hard and stable and you can often find the middle boards from the stack at the wood yard which are quartered. I wonder which oak your student used...? American white oak is probably the most dense and hard that I have used for furniture making.

This would work well with my imagined all blond guitar.

I find it hard to figure bog oak. Is it really still hard enough after years of immersion?

Dave M
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Erik Zurcher
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Erik Zurcher » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:13 pm

Exciting project, James! Will it be finished before the CGR? I would love to hear it played by Matthew.
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George Crocket
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby George Crocket » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:43 pm

Erik Zurcher wrote:Exciting project, James! Will it be finished before the CGR? I would love to hear it played by Matthew.


I had similar thoughts, Erik. :D
George
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Michael.N.
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby Michael.N. » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:49 pm

Dave M wrote:Well there's a thought: oak for the fretboard.

It is pretty hard and stable and you can often find the middle boards from the stack at the wood yard which are quartered. I wonder which oak your student used...? American white oak is probably the most dense and hard that I have used for furniture making.

This would work well with my imagined all blond guitar.

I find it hard to figure bog oak. Is it really still hard enough after years of immersion?

Dave M


Bog Oak is still hard. Not sure whether there is much difference between it and this modern stuff that they call Oak.
My personal Guitar has an Oak fretboard. From a distance of a foot or so I guess that pretty much everyone would think it Ebony, that's how Black it is. Closer inspection reveals the open grain. Of course it's not as heavy as ebony and it's easier to work.
If you bake the new stuff in the oven you can get it to near Rosewood colour, bake it too long and it might end up like Ebony. I've never taken it that far though. Actually I think they sell thermo Oak for flooring, fairly dark colour.
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Re: Lister Guitar #100

Postby mmapag » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:31 am

Absolutely lovely James! Looking forward to the progress. My guess on the design based on the color is Torres.
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