Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Audio and video recordings of the works of Agustín Barrios Mangoré
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lagartija
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by lagartija » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:14 pm

Yes, a masterclass a week from today. :shock: :chaud:
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by lagartija » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:45 pm

Ok.... a week's more work on the piece. :chaud: I promised an updated recording....so at the moment, here is where it is at:


UPDATED:
Choro da Saudade1-11-11-17.mp3

Compared with the first recording, I think I've made some progress with the rubato. Still some glitches happen each time I play it. :roll:
Also, I have to give the destination notes more time (especially that D on the first string in section A) when I arrive. I can hear that I often cut those too short.
Oh yeah.....remember to breathe even when nervous! :lol:
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Cass Couvelas
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by Cass Couvelas » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:44 pm

Very well done, definite progress! All the best for tomorrow and . . . enjoy it!
"She ran the whole gamut of emotions from A to B."
(Dorothy Parker on Katharine Hepburn)

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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by Bertran » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:35 pm

Hi lagartija,

First, I love your accuracy,... six months, 135 hours,... it means 45 minutes per day. :)

When we practice one piece day by day it becomes a routine and we reach the limit when we can't notice any progress. But, after practice and practice,... we became better, go beyond of the scope of our previous possibility and finally reach a level of joy. Level when we have no technical obstacles and where only interpretation and emotions becomes our friends. As you said yourself, maybe about year,.. but you are very, very close.
So keep going, your progress (at only short period) is obvious.

Also, I love the sound of your guitar and recording, clear sound without noise and unnecessary knocking around.
This is a demanding piece,... I love this piece so I am sure that you will setup all of the parts to finally be fully satisfied with your playing and recording.

Best, Bertran II

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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by lagartija » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:58 pm

Now it is 150 hours Bertran! ;-)
Thank you for listening and commenting. I still have parts where there are technical problems to solve, and areas where the musical effect I want is not coming out or is not consistent enough. The recording is produced by a Zoom H4n with no editing or processing. The mic is a bit on the bright side for my tastes; in real life the guitar has a much richer sound.
It is a beautiful piece and it is the most challenging I’ve worked on on a number of levels.

Thanks for listening and commenting, Cass! I’m sure I’ll do fine tomorrow. I will enjoy learning a new way of hearing the piece.
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by Cass Couvelas » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:40 pm

I hope the masterclass went well for you and you felt you did yourself justice on the day!

I'd be really interested to know what you were able to take away from the experience. Having listened to your two recordings it would be fascinating to hear what light was shed by the person taking the class, and what useful insights you were able to take from it.

I love a good masterclass (as an audience member, I should add!). The focus on musicality and interpretation is a great draw for me.
"She ran the whole gamut of emotions from A to B."
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by lagartija » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:33 pm

So....the masterclass with Jorge Caballero.
As always, my performance could have been better, but realistically it is where I am and I had hoped with all the concentrated work that I did that I would get through the piece without major slips. That was not the case, unfortunately. I got through section A, the repeat, section B, section C and its repeat. Then came section B again and somewhere in it I just blanked as to where I was and where I was going. Deer in the headlights time! :lol: Jorge, who I could see over the fingerboard to my left, gestured toward himself with both hands, which I read as an indication that I was on my way down the fretboard. I grabbed a chord down from where I was and then managed to get to the end of the section and played the final repeat of section A to finish.
The time for me to recover was way longer than I would have thought from how much time I have spent on the piece, but there it was. :-|
We then talked about my slurs and consistency of note quality. All really great information.
He thought that really the biggest thing he sees in my playing that needs attention is inconsistent technical execution. Sometimes I play something and it is beautiful, then the next time I play it there is a problem. I told him that I do notice that but was unsure how to go about fixing that. He told me that he was not worried about me musically because I had a really nice sound and it was clear I had musical ideas...my problem was inconsistent execution, and he thought I needed to work on being able to play all notes the same in a short phraselet and *then* make alterations to it only after after all notes could be equally clear and consistent. He said this isn’t really the fun part of music practice, but for us to get to the point where we can express ourselves in the music we need a place of consistency in which to start.
Most of the comments I heard from others was that I had a beautiful sound and that they heard and liked the musical ideas I had; those ideas came through in spite of the glitches. Everyone thought I complied well with his instructions. So it was a good masterclass...I learned a number of things. :-D
One of the other students who played said, “we all wished we played better in one of these performances, it just goes with the territory.”
When I feel I can stand to listen to my performance (in a day or two) , I will try to see what derailed me in the B section repeat. Jorge said that even with a slip, I did finish the piece from beginnng to end. He says in performance, that is the main requirement. Obviously, I need more practice recovering better.
When we were about out of time, he asked if there was a part of the piece that was particularly troublesome. I went right to a particular measure in the C section where I have a problem with series of slurred notes and an ornament. He smiled when I went right to it and played that passage and said that he could see that I had identified that as a problem and had worked on it specifically. “I applaud you for that, since many students often ignore focusing on a problem area. But of course we must always address the problem and not ignore it.” Whereupon he gave me some possible solutions to practice.
This is what I remember from my session. I am glad I recorded it so I can go back and be reminded of other things he told me.
The other two students played and his comments during their sessions were very insightful and I learned a lot from what he told them as well.
A good time was probably had by all! ;-)
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:52 am

You did it! and you got through nearly the whole damn long thing until a small breakdown that you recovered from. And Jorge was there to gently catch you up. Maybe that's the take away. Knowing the environment--people--are supportive because of their own experience. Maybe this is more important than playing the piece perfectly.

From your first sentences I thought that you were going to say that you lost your train of thought...fingers...in the first section b.

Speaking from the peanut gallery, I don't know how you guys do a master class.
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by lagartija » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:24 am

What I have found that makes it possible to be in the "hot seat" is that all of the instructors in the masterclasses I have been in have been exceedingly kind and helpful. :D Maybe they feel sorry for me. :lol: For the most part I am 40 years older than many of the other students they have in the masterclasses and I am not destined to be a professional as they are. Nevertheless, I do it partly so that those who attend the masterclass who are not conservatory students can see someone more like themselves. In our area, the amateur players (guitar enthusiasts) are not willing to get up there and play publicly. So having three players for the class, two conservatory students and one guitar enthusiast, means that those who are not going to be professional musicians will see that even someone like themselves can benefit from high level instruction. The Masters teaching the classes are able to instruct all levels and those who are destined to teach (many of the conservatory students who were observers) can see how an experienced teacher assesses an intermediate player and finds ways to help them improve their playing of the piece. I try to take every opportunity I can to do this. I'm not yet as skilled as the conservatory students in starting from anywhere in a phrase, but usually pretty close to it. I practice starting from random spots and can do it in the practice room, but under pressure I find that I have to start at the beginning of the phrase or at the beginning of a measure. Each time I do this, I seem to be a little less nervous, but I'm still better in the practice room like everyone else!

When I watched the other two sessions, I really enjoyed the insight into the music that the Maestro gave to each student. Once he pointed something out, I could hear it in the music and the students also heard the piece differently, too.
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by Cass Couvelas » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:24 pm

Thanks so much for reporting so fully on your experience. I really do congratulate you for undertaking it! It seems to me that Jorge was confirming much of what you already knew – as you said in your earlier post you recognised where your weaknesses lay.

Well done too for putting yourself forward as an encouragement to others. I’d like to think that other amateurs in your orbit will take your lead on this and recognise that such classes can be for them, too; and that they will get a lot out of them. There are of course many amateurs who would never take part, who would never countenance putting themselves under such pressure. But I’m sure there must be other keen teetering types, like myself, who would really love to have the guts to get up there, but can’t quite make the leap. Your encouragement by doing it yourself is tremendous - thank you! I think it’s also up to the organising bodies to actively encourage participation by the amateur community; broaden the whole scope beyond that of aspiring young professional.

Out of interest, how many people were in the audience, what was the rough split between ‘guitar enthusiast’ and conservatory student, and did people actively participate with questions/comments?

I’m really glad you came away with a lot of positives from the experience - one of which is you’ll never forget where you are in section B again! :wink:
"She ran the whole gamut of emotions from A to B."
(Dorothy Parker on Katharine Hepburn)

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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by lagartija » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:59 pm

How many people were there...I went first and I tried not to focus on the audience at all to reduce my nervousness. The hall holds 150, and when I glanced out once, I think there were 10 -15 people. I heard the door open as I was playing, but blocked that out completely. When my session was done, I was too busy to look out at the audience, trying to clear my gear from the stage (I brought my own bench and footstool) put my guitar in the case, etc.
Then I quickly took a seat in the front row so my back was to the audience.
Maybe five or six were Conservatory students (this class was held on Sunday morning at 9:30 am and Hartt is an hour and 15 minutes away), my first teacher was there along with my current teacher, as well as Alan Chapman the luthier who made my guitar. The remainder of the audience were guitar enthusiasts local to the area.
At the conclusion of each session, Jorge asked if there were any questions. There was only one question asked.
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by Big bird » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:10 pm

Man ... tough piece! I think your are making great strides, I enjoyed both recordings.
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Choro da Saudade

Post by lagartija » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:26 pm

Thank you for listening, Randy! Great strides, yes...but so much further to go. :chaud: It is by far the most challenging piece I’ve worked on for a number of reasons.
:-D
Big bird wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:10 pm
Man ... tough piece! I think your are making great strides, I enjoyed both recordings.
When the sun shines, bask.
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Classical Guitar forever!

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