The T marks the phrase. I should've made that more clear. I've only done the first four measures here to allow others to contribute. The idea, as discussed in the linked discussion, is to let others contribute a portion of the analysis so that more people will get experience doing it. All of the aspects of the piece will ultimately be discussed. This is just a starting place. I think a sonata might be a bit much for people just starting out with this stuff. There is enough form here to be talked about imo. Thanks for your thoughts though.Aryeh wrote:This kind of chordal analysis is good but I think the individual phrases of the melody and how they are effected by the underlying harmony is even more important, I would show phrase markings in the score as well. This piece is a romantic lyrical one and you have to show how you would perform it as a singer or single note melody instrument would. Understanding all the lovely chords isn't going to help if the audience can't make sense of the melody line when you play it.
Also before any discussion of chords is introduced the form of the piece must be identified. This is a very pretty piece but it's but it's too improvisatory especially in the second section where it goes into the minor for a full blown analysis IMO. Better a piece that has a sonata form or a theme and variations where you can really see how the composer is elaborating & expounding on his initial themes and ideas. That's just my opinion, please continue to analyze all you'd like
I see the T but what phrase is it showing? It's on top of nowhere. Where does the phrase begin and end? How many phrases do we see in those first 4 measures? Certainly more than one. Better to put phrase markings.jsguitar wrote:[
The T marks the phrase. I should've made that more clear.
Aryeh, I should've marked the phrases in the intro. I play them as such but didn't think to mark them when doing all the other stuff. I agree about the melody which is why I have it circled. I obviously didn't do the beaming so I can't change that. Since you seem interested, perhaps you could add an attachment of your analysis. It would be helpful to the discussion.Aryeh wrote:I see the T but what phrase is it showing? It's on top of nowhere. Where does the phrase begin and end? How many phrases do we see in those first 4 measures? Certainly more than one. Better to put phrase markings.jsguitar wrote:[
The T marks the phrase. I should've made that more clear.
I also disagree with the beaming on the accompaniment in the first measure. The melody line in the bass is clearly low D A F# G - yet the beaming has the entire A7 chord with stem going upward. The chord should be separated with the G and C having stem downward and the C# stem upward. The opening accompaniment figure is also a phrase and that should be marked as well. The intro starts with two phrases played in treble and bass, imagine a cello singing/bowing the opening bass line and a flute on top joining in. Since we as guitarists have to juggle melody and accompaniment at the same time we have to be aware of these things.
Well it is most certainly not a C#m7 unless you flatten the 5th. (what some of us call the half diminished, but that's another story)Non Tabius wrote:The challenge when it comes to chordal nomanclature is that there are so many alternatives for the same voicings
depending on indervidual perception of how the chords are so named.I see the last chord as an A9th because of the B and the G.The B is not a passing note but an extention of the Dominant 7 rendering the chord an A9.There are other alternatives as well according Mel Bay Chordal Harmony it may also be called a C#m7 or an implied Em6 .
Sorry Blur I tried to send a previous post which was unsucessful meaning it to be a C#m7b5 but ,mistakingly ommiting the b5 on re-submission.Well it is most certainly not a C#m7 unless you flatten the 5th. (what some of us call the half diminished, but that's another story)
No problem, James. I actually had measure 7 as G D7, but I can go with your G Bm which is probably more logical given that D7 in bar 7 to Bm in the following bar is a really weak harmonic movement anyway.jsguitar wrote: Here's some more of the harmonic portion of the analysis which will hopefully give some insight into Barrios's choice of harmonic progression and form. I haven't marked as much minutia in this due to limited time (nor proofread it much) but I added the chords and their function through the first 16 bars or so for now and left out some suspensions, ect.
Blur, I only had a slight disagreement regarding m. 7, I believe you had it as Bm Bm. I was seeing it as G(in first inversion) to Bm, hearing the B in the bass implied in the second half of the measure. I also opted to just mark your Asus A as just A A, but with both the B and then D in the first half of the measure, I could see labeling as such and can do that if you feel it's more appropriate. I was hoping to just get the basis of the harmonic progression here, so I may have missed some things, but at least it's a start and I can edit it as needed.
I did. I've been playing for nearly 50 years in many styles. They do work. But please let's not go down that path again. It is counter-productive to the aims of the thread.flameproof wrote: * try strumming the chords while singing the melody, you'll see neither G Bmin etc., nor G D7 etc., work.
Good point, but I suspect this isn't really for your benefit, given that you seem to have quite an advanced understanding of music theory. I'm getting quite a bit out of following these discussions and seeing how people work out what chord the notes fit in. Sorry I haven't contributed. I will hope to chip in with something useless when I get chance to sit down with the score.flameproof wrote:Which brings me to the crux if the matter... suppose we manage to agree on the names of the chords here, then what? What will we have learned? What will it reveal about the structure of the piece?
Has anybody at any point said that that was the purpose of the exercise?banl wrote:I agree with Flamey, naming those chords isn't going to help me (and I think nobody) to play this piece better.