Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretation

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Ramon Amira
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Ramon Amira » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:30 pm

Arthur Becker wrote:
Ramon Amira wrote: The F# on the first beat of Measure Two marks the end of the melody line. But this is a sharp descent from the B, lower even that the very first treble note of Measure One. Consequently, if it is played at or near the volume of the B, it threatens to dissipate the effect of the peak at B. Conversely, a drop in volume at the F# will enhance the peak at the B.
It is worth considering continuing crescendo through to the F#. Decreasing the volume to me says the thought is done and we shall move on. But the thought is not done. It is thought over again in the next few measures then added to with the final melodic descent. I feel a strong rest on F# helps tie the entire phrase together and keep me as a listener leaning forward to see what happens next. I also prefer to start light and increase through to the B in measures 5-6, backing off significantly on the G#. These are just my personal preferences.
I offered this as a supplement to "playing it the way you feel it," but n the end you have to basically do just that. So if that's the way you feel it, certainly go with your instincts.

Personally, if you embrace my idea of a crescendo in that opening, then I cannot conceive of continuing the crescendo through the F#. It's pulling the note is exact opposite directions.

Certainly the phrase does not end on the B, but falling back on the F# does not delete the F#. It is still an integral part of the phrase, but clearly is not the peak of the phrase. The peak is at the B, and to continue the crescendo does double damage to the phrase: it lends undue emphasis to the F#, and at the same time diminishes the effect of the peak at B.

It's the same with measures five and six. To "start light and increase through to the B in measures 5-6, backing off significantly on the G#" simply runs counter to the nature of the phrase. I cannot imagine doing a crescendo on a descending phrase, which really calls for a diminuendo.

Ramon
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Ramon Amira
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Ramon Amira » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:56 pm

Non Tabius wrote:Thanks for your devotion Ramon.Your notes also serve as an as aid in creating Program Notes for examination purposes e.g Royals where discussion on form and structure are a seperate aspect for all instruments.
I'm glad it was helpful. Forgive my ignorance, but what are "Royals?" Is this some kind of examination?

Ramon
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:55 pm

Non Tabius wrote:your notes also serve as an as aid in creating Program Notes for examination purposes e.g Royals where discussion on form and structure are a seperate aspect for all instruments.
Ramon Amira wrote:I'm glad it was helpful. Forgive my ignorance, but what are "Royals?" Is this some kind of examination?
Ramon, from mention in previous posts I believe NT is referring to the grade examinations of the "Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music" (a UK body). However, as:

a) "Lagrima" isn't a prescribed work.
b) program notes are not required.

I think he must be labouring under an outdated concept of the nature of the examinations (unless of course the rules and syllabus are different in South Africa).

Over to you Non Tabius - are things different in SA?

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Non Tabius
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Non Tabius » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:12 pm

[quoteI think he must be labouring under an outdated concept of the nature of the examinations (unless of course the rules and syllabus are different in South Africa).

Over to you Non Tabius - are things different in SA][/quote]

Hello Mark long time no see!Ragarding Lagrima ;I meant to thank Ramon for taking the trouble in doing an analyses as he has done here in this case.
I was refering to program notes in general as they are required by Royals Schools Of Music i.e.that the way that it was done here by Ramon in the case of Lagrima (which is not a licentiate piece) or even a graded piece as far as I know by the recogised institutions.What Imean is that analyses "like these" would be helpful in pieces where program notes are required. I am well aware that Lagrima is not a Dip ABRSM standard piece or even a Trinity ATCL
its not even mentioned in any of the grades; not in my country or anywhere else that I know of.

However I can see no reason why Ramon's analyses could not be useful for program notes for concerts or recitals,as well as the theoretical knowledge which could be gained for those intersted in music form or analyses in a general sense pertaining to the cg repatoire.Other folks like John Hall a few points back also posts analyses and thank goodness for kind, folks like them.
Last edited by Non Tabius on Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:30 pm

Non Tabius wrote:Hello Mark long time no see ...
Yes - I'm not here as much as before - ongoing health issue which, apart from anything else, puts a serious limit on how much time I can spare for the internet ...
Non Tabius wrote:no reason why Ramon's analyses could not be useful for program note concert or recital,as well as the theoretical knowledge which coulld be gained for thhose intersted in music form or analyses in a general sense pertaining to the cg repatoir.Othher folks like John Hall a few points back also posts analyses and I thank goodness for kind folks like them
Understood. I had thought that you might be referring to the old examination system which included the possibility of questions on form and structure relating to the pieces and the even older syllabus which did in fact include "Lagrima". Sometimes these went out of step in "the colonies".

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Non Tabius
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Non Tabius » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:27 pm

I clocked into the 60's this year with hearing problems , diabetes .Fortunatlly Ive got the guitar and my music to keep the finger muscles and mind wires cooking.I am pleased I was able to edit my spelling .The pc kept crashing while I was writing.I hope my old Grammar Master from years back will buy my excuse ,if he is still around.I hope its nothing too serious as far as your health gose Mark.
Last edited by Non Tabius on Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:44 pm

Non Tabius wrote:I hope its nothing too serious as far as your health gose Mark.
Thanks "NT" - fingers crossed for now on that score - meanwhile, as with yourself, music (and students) keep life full and fun no matter what. Congratulations on passing the 60 marker by the way. I'd better go and play "Lagrima" now to justify straying off-topic.

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Non Tabius
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretat

Post by Non Tabius » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:37 pm

I trust that you will have no problem with THAT first inversion A Major IX position :evil: .I always give myself a little applause if I get it through the posts first time.Not always though.Ive noticed that one can never be too complacent with it, no matter how many years Ive been playing the piece.
All part of the game.Enjoy.

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretation

Post by Tonyyyyy » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:47 pm

Many thanks Ramon - the thread need a bump. :merci:

The link to John halls analysis didnt work, but I found it... http://www.johnhallguitar.com/blog/lgri ... _analysis/

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Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretation

Post by quavers » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:36 am

I have enjoyed playing Lagrima for years; it's one of the first and one of the few pieces I have committed to memory. That said, I have changed the dynamics, lingered a little longer on some of the dotted half notes, introduced a few vibratos, and played a few of the phrases a little further away from the bridge. This piece lets you pretty well do what you with it and remains forgiving. It is simply beautiful and allows for all kinds of interpretation. This piece could easily be played the same way over and over, but who would want to do that?

Thomas Beck

Re: Lagrima: A structural analysis and notes for interpretation

Post by Thomas Beck » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:26 pm

The analytical approach in itself is invaluable. I appreciate it. It lifts the notes off the page and the fingerboard and explains an approach that hopefully will help deliver the multi-dimensional expression in our performances we all strive to achieve.

Thank you,
Tom Beck

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