D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

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Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Esteban Crespi » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:47 am

Rick very well done, the Washa Mesa sounds great and with a good tempo.
About the polyphonie, the thumb seems correct but the other two I'm not so sure, the string brung out can be heard but not clearly. By the way I find this exercise simply impossible! it makes the Postillon seem easy by comparison.

Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Esteban Crespi » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:21 am

About the tempo in the Postillon it seems to me that the professor plays it at about 80bpm, allegro should be something like 150bpm almos twice as fast! Jesus Morote has made a very interesting contribution in the spanish Forum (here http://www.guitarraclasicadelcamp.com/v ... 18#p188212),

In essence it says that the piece is adapted by Arcas from the zarzuela "El Postillón de l a Rioja" (there is not any Zarzuela called "El sitio de Zaragoza" it is a kind of orchestral suite) a reduction of the Zarzuela for piano and voice is here: http://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000114266&page=56 and ou piece starts where it says "Muchachas casaderas, morir de celos..." . It should have the tempo moderato as it says "Tiempo de Bolero" so in the range 80-108bpm.

Hola, Esteban. En esta partitura del repertorio Delcamp hay varios errores. El primero en el título, pues dice que "El postillón de la Rioja" procede de la zarzuela "El sitio de Zaragoza". Eso es totalmente falso. No hay ninguna zarzuela llamada "El sitio de Zargoza", que es una pieza musical para Banda, de Cristóbal Oudrid, una especie de Suite orquestal, pero no una zarzuela.

La pieza ante la que nos hallamos es una versión de un fragmento de la zarzuela "El postillón de la Rioja", del mismo Cristóbal Oudrid, en versión debida a Julián Arcas. Aquí tenéis un enlace a la partitura de esa zarzuela en reducción para canto y piano: http://bdh-rd.bne.es/viewer.vm?id=0000114266&page=1.

En concreto, el episodio adaptado por Arcas es el Bolero que empieza en la página 46 de la partitura del enlace que he puesto antes ("Muchachas casaderas, morir de celos..."). Por tanto, el tiempo es de bolero. Según la Wikipedia, https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolero_(d ... a%C3%B1ola), "El bolero es una danza española de ritmo ternario, en tempo moderato (80 a 108 bpm)". Así que 80 negras por minuto es un tiempo perfectamente aceptable, nada de 150.

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Rick Beauregard » Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:06 pm

Thanks Estaban. 80 has been my goal. Thanks for the background. If I can get it there I'm done! It makes sense and is more consistent with Prof. Delcamp's rendition. Much faster than that and I just don't see it being an attractive piece anymore.

Isabelle Frisac has a nice interpretation here.
viewtopic.php?t=100921
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Marko Räsänen » Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:35 pm

Rick Beauregard wrote:Isabelle Frisac has a nice interpretation here.
viewtopic.php?t=100921


Those rasgueados fit really well into the piece. Such a shame I'm terrible with those :lol:
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Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Esteban Crespi » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:53 pm

Isabelle's version sounds great, I'm really envious! :twisted: .

I'm uploading my last recording of the Postillon, it is still full of errors but I'm running out of time this month, the tempo is as fast as I can play it, still far away from the 80bpm, if I play faster then I don't get anything right, slower and I get bored and lose my concentration. But I'll keep the Postillon in my repertoire and try to improve it in the future. I find it really nice with that Spanish air (after all I'm Spanish)


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Tomorrow I will try to record the Washa Mesa, and the Poliphonie, but I fear I'm not getting passing grades this month :oops: .

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Rick Beauregard » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:43 pm

This is really very good Esteban! You managed to play it slightly quicker than I could. I too must continue work on this to get it right. A couple of observations. You may have flubbed the recording in Measures 13 & 14, or you have the rhythm not quite right. It is difficult, with a grace note, eighth notes, sixteenths, and a triplet. In measures 29 and again in 36 again the rhythm is not quite right. The pairs of eight notes get one beat each, then the triplet gets a half beat and the final note in the measure a half.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Rick Beauregard » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:55 pm

Here is my version of El Postillon De La Rioja. I too was not able to play this at tempo. Please excuse the several errors, especially in Measure 41, and the foot tapping. I tried some staccato articulation to add to the Spanish rhythmic feeling, and Esteban, added the rasqueo at the end. ¡Olé!


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All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Marko Räsänen » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:09 am

Hi Rick,

I'm not sure why you've changed the polonaise rhythm into bolero rhythm (or close to that) in some places? In my opinion it changes the feel of the piece too much, and certainly makes it more difficult to play than necessary (or to put it another way, limits the tempo you can reach).

You also have a tendency to play the hammer-on's too fast, especially in measures 27, 31 & 3, and also the hammer-on-pull-off combination measure 29 is slightly too fast. Other than that, there were couple of hesitations here and there, but as noted before, it's a difficult piece, and considering that you did a good job with it! :bravo:
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Marko Räsänen » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:20 am

Esteban Crespi wrote:I'm uploading my last recording of the Postillon, it is still full of errors but I'm running out of time this month, the tempo is as fast as I can play it, still far away from the 80bpm, if I play faster then I don't get anything right, slower and I get bored and lose my concentration. But I'll keep the Postillon in my repertoire and try to improve it in the future. I find it really nice with that Spanish air (after all I'm Spanish)


Hi Esteban, some sections were actually very good! :bravo:

However, I think especially the A major section needs more work in keeping the tempo steady. You have several rhythmic issues there, mostly rushing to play the notes before the duration of the previous ones are up, and also trying to play the 8th notes as 16th notes (in measures 29 and 37). In any case, you have made good progress with the piece!
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Rick Beauregard » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:01 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote:Hi Rick,

I'm not sure why you've changed the polonaise rhythm into bolero rhythm (or close to that) in some places? In my opinion it changes the feel of the piece too much, and certainly makes it more difficult to play than necessary (or to put it another way, limits the tempo you can reach).

You also have a tendency to play the hammer-on's too fast, especially in measures 27, 31 & 3, and also the hammer-on-pull-off combination measure 29 is slightly too fast. Other than that, there were couple of hesitations here and there, but as noted before, it's a difficult piece, and considering that you did a good job with it! :bravo:


Very incite full comment Marko. I really just played it from feel. I need to study the differences between polonaise and bolero more. I assume you're talking about the "bridge" sections where I sort of use more of a dotted rhythm?
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Marko Räsänen » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:36 pm

Yes, Rick, the bridge and the opening measures, as well as the similar ones at the end. You play the 16th note pairs closer to triplet where the first two notes are tied together, or dotted 16th - 32th note combination.
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Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Esteban Crespi » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:40 pm

Marko and Rick thanks for your comments, I'll work on it!

Rick very well played. I like how you produce the stacattos, it doesn't make the piece any easier! Some parts of the rhythm have shocked me as different, but it sounds very nice. I suppose that it is what Marko calls going from polonaise to Bolero (I need also to study the difference, I had always though all the 3/4 rhythms to be the same :oops: ) I also like the final rasgueado it fits very well. Just a comment about the measures 50 and 52 the apoyatura and the e should overall take one-eight, the same as all the surrounding notes, and you play it more like one quarter, and this breaks a little the rhythm.

Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Esteban Crespi » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:00 am

Here goes the poliphonie ¡what a nightmare! before bringing out every finger I play the melody just with that finger. This has helped me in practicing, as you then know what you should hear.


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Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Esteban Crespi » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:51 pm

The last lesson of this month, the Washa Mesa, I play it faster than I can and in the second part I "eat several dots" breaking the rhythm when I play slower I don't make that error, but I make others :?.

I fear that for this month I'm finished, I'll be out of home for the next 15 days and the best I will be able to play is a child's guitar :-(. Good luck with the lessons!


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Stewart Doyle
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 03

Postby Stewart Doyle » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:39 pm

Hi everyone

Now that lesson 4 has started I'm not expecting any comments on the videos below, particularly as I've been too busy to visit the forum for a while. I just want to move on to lesson 4 myself. The pieces are still full of errors I'm afraid. I'm pretty sure all are 'fluffs' rather than misreading the score.
See you in lesson 4!

Wascha Mesa

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El Postillon

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Polyphony

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