D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

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The classical guitar lessons are free. They are aimed at the isolated amateur who does not have access to a teacher. To join the class, apply for registration into the students group.

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Rick Beauregard » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:52 pm

Stewart Doyle wrote:Thank you everyone for the comments on my recordings.
Well played Vincent, I was going to make the same comments as Rick regarding the Sagreras, namely perhaps slow down a little at the end of section A, for effect mainly, but it helps that it makes it easier too! I think, like Rick hinted, your slides could slide more rather than jump. Your Lagrima was very well played too.
Rick, I know just how you feel. In the past I've sometimes suggested it would be great if we could just submit small sections of pieces to demonstrate the technique is mastered. From that point of view, your Sagreras, particularly the first section, shows that you can master ligados. Generally when I've repeated the lessons at the same level (third time at D05), the pieces I wasn't keen on the first time, became even more of a problem the second and third time. One exception was Manuelito, which with a bit more effort, I grew to appreciate.
Angela - regarding musicality, other than listening to lots of different versions of a song, and perhaps even playing along, the only other advice I can suggest is to keep recording yourself and listen to see how it compares to others? Just playing the melody line or even singing it might also help?
I've been away for a few days so I'll have to get back to the Sagreras and see if I can match the excellent versions above!


Stewart, I think it is totally fine to submit works in progress. I think that was the original intent in fact. At least we have this forum to keep us on task and to get encouragement through the low spots. I'm a little depressed though that they don't get any better the second or third time around.

Angela, I agree with Stewart: listen, listen and more listening. :casque: :casque: :casque:
Someone who grew up as a child hearing flamenco his or her whole life (or rock or blues or Brazilian Choros) has a "natural" rhythm inside them for this music. But it can be acquired by listening. It is the hardest thing to teach in music: feeling, musicality, phrasing.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
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Angela Zhao
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Angela Zhao » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:43 am

Rick Beauregard wrote:I find myself going through various stages with these lessons. At the beginning I am excited to work on new pieces, and anxiously figure out the fingering and phrasing. Then I go through a middle phase where I get bogged down trying to commit the notes to memory or at least muscle memory, so I can play them freely. I try to focus now on process to help me get through this phase: slow repetition or short segments, 5 times in a row without error, then faster tempo, get it right 5X in a row... I might start with the last measure and work backwards to help with memory and recovery. Then I reach a phase where I am just bored with the piece, unless it is one of those that I love. I get it to about 90% for performance. But that last 10% is my biggest challenge. By now I am completely bored, progress halts, and I record what I can. That's where I am with this little study by Sagreras. I need to move on.

Hi Rick
You play it very well, and what you said is exactly our experience, and you have good ways, that is play 5 times without errors, somtime I made record 10 or more times,but at last I almost choose the first one, want to play without any errors, but mistakes, the more.
And you really do it well ,this song you have good musicality and rhythm. :bravo:

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Angela Zhao
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Angela Zhao » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:01 am

keep recording yourself and listen to see how it compares to others? Just playing the melody line or even singing


Hi Stewart
Thank you giude me, yes, it's good ways,I think I need to sing the songs before I made a record, and listen more as Rick said, with this forum and your classmate, it's always make me to make progress.
Thanks for all. :merci:

Esteban
you have good Lágrima,and have master it, it's not easy to make a record without any errors.
we just do our best. :bravo:

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vincent martin
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby vincent martin » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:02 pm

Rick Beauregard wrote:I find myself going through various stages with these lessons. At the beginning I am excited to work on new pieces, and anxiously figure out the fingering and phrasing. Then I go through a middle phase where I get bogged down trying to commit the notes to memory or at least muscle memory, so I can play them freely. I try to focus now on process to help me get through this phase: slow repetition or short segments, 5 times in a row without error, then faster tempo, get it right 5X in a row... I might start with the last measure and work backwards to help with memory and recovery. Then I reach a phase where I am just bored with the piece, unless it is one of those that I love. I get it to about 90% for performance. But that last 10% is my biggest challenge. By now I am completely bored, progress halts, and I record what I can. That's where I am with this little study by Sagreras. I need to move on.


Youtube

Rick, the first part of the piece is well mastered, regularly played - no precipitation a the end _ , good balance of the basses vs melody. the second half would require a bit more memory work, but you went through the difficult bits

Strange, as I go through similar moods, like you, I enjoy the discovery phase, then it really depends on the pieces, I like Arcas and continue to play after the lesson, but don't have the same pleasure with Tarrega, therefore do what I can and need then stop. Music is not only a matter of technique, you need to enjoy what you do, particularly as amateurs. it is by finding the pieces that suit us that we will continue; I consider the others as little steps to progress
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vincent martin
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby vincent martin » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:09 pm

Esteban Crespi wrote:even though Sagreras 6 is a nice piece it is not nice enough to pay for it's difficulty and the work needed to master it.
I have devoted most of my working time to Lágrima, here is the current version, with some errors but I'm happy enough. With this piece I'm still far from being bored!

Esteban, I like your version of Lagrima, there are tweaks to do particularly in the high E area, but I enjoy the interpretation, the melody sounds very well!
As mentioned in the reply to Rick, the Sagregas brings a lot technically, I think it is worth spending the time to work it, your left hand thank you .... later
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vincent martin
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby vincent martin » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:17 pm

Working on the interpretation is less scientific than the rest of the work, but this also something from you, unique that you put in the pieces.
My way, might not be the best:

1/ sometimes there are indications on the scope on how forte you should play, or when to slow down, it helps to get the first directions
2/ if a part is repeated, we should try to vary the way it is played, either via the sound or volume
3/ Try out, emphasise, hide, invent, start to feel
4/ Listen to others, after the other points to not be too influenced, there are maybe good ideas to copy, or things to avoid
5/ go back to 1 :)
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Stewart Doyle
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Stewart Doyle » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:39 pm

Hi Esteban, I enjoyed your Lagrima too. I was going to say that the last part of m2 and m4 sounded a little rushed/unclear, but when I listened to M. Delcamp's version I noticed that he goes to m3 and m5 quite quickly too. I perhaps overdo the rubato.
One thing to note, which Kevin Gallagher mentions in two videos called Lagrima Explained on YouTube, is that some open strings make it easier to transition between positions, e.g. the final note in m4.
In m12 you missed the difficult hammer-on between 3 and 4. I think this lesson is very hammer-on/pull-off focussed, so I think it's worth persevering to improve this. I find hammering on from 3->4 far harder than 2->4 or 1->4.
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Rick Beauregard » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:20 pm

vincent martin wrote:
Rick Beauregard wrote:Sometimes the better way may not come naturally

Of course, we know this, like work slow, I'll apply this for the next 08 session. By the way, I play the melody with m not i, but this was totally unconscious. Thanks for reminding this :)


So I'm mistaken. Sorry. Video tricks. Our training is designed to make most choices unconscious.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Esteban Crespi » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:07 pm

Hello, I upload a version of Sagreras, slow and unsure. For some reason I was very reluctant to work on this piece, and I haven't payed it much attention, may be because I was obsesed with Lágrima. I fear that it needs still a lot of work.


Youtube

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Rick Beauregard » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:21 pm

Well done Esteban. A tough little study. Aside from more time to fluency, on a technical matter, take a close look at your left hand position and make sure you prevent your hand from opening up and pinky flying out away from the neck. This I think is one of the points of the study. Pull off with the finger, especially 4, not the hand.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby Esteban Crespi » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:06 am

Thanks Rick!
Your comments are very welcome, I didn't knew how to make those slurs. I think I will work on the Barrios 'estudio del ligado' to improve on this technique before attemping again this piece.

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vincent martin
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 07

Postby vincent martin » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:29 pm

Esteban, you've got the spirit of the piece and know where it hurts. I find the Barrios more difficult, therefore my advice: don't give up, maybe focus on the first part, slowly, follow the indications by exagerating the hammer on. Little by little, at every practice.
As Rick said, it's a tough one, and D08 is there ...

:bye:
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