D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Archive of on-line classical guitar lessons from previous years.

Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Mark Bacon » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:49 pm

I'm a little less hopeful about getting a recording done soon than I was earlier. :twisted:

With Malaguena I'm having two main issues: 1 pulloffs to the high open E make an unpleasant snapping sound. Any ideas? 2. I can't seem to come up with RH fingering that feels right in the deceptively tricky measures 62-64. Then again, maybe once you reach a certain level of pieces the fingering isn't always 'comfortable'!


No particular troubles with the other pieces. The time changes throw me though. I wanted to ask you all something though. When a measure within a piece starts on a rest, especially when part of a repeat (like measures 18,33, and 42 in Clarines Y Trompetas) does the rest often sound omitted to you? I get that feeling in Mr DelCamp's performance (especially m42) and I've often seemingly detected it from many, many others. Naturally I'm not trying to take away from his performance-I think it's wonderful. I've just always struggled most with rhythm, so I'm wondering if it's "just me". :oops:

Thanks everyone!
Mark
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Marko Räsänen » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:34 am

Hi Mark,

I am getting more pessimistic about doing a recording soon for Clarines and Malaguena as well. I spent some time working with the final exam piece, implementing some ideas how to make it sound more interesting and fresh, and as a consequence I haven't had the time to work with this lesson for the past few days.

Here's my take on your questions.
Malaguena 1: these pulloffs are the hardest part for me in this piece, because controlling the tone is so difficult. You need to alter the strength, speed and the angle of the pulloff depending on which fret you are pulling off from. At the higher frets generally you need to use more of a vertical angle and do the pulloff more gradually (ease the finger off the string instead of letting it snap from underneath the finger instantly) than when near the nut. Also, do not use the tip of the finger (where the callous is) for the pulling finger, because that will make the pulloff sound snappy. Instead, fret the string slightly below the callous. In my opinion, in order to make the pulloff sequence sound good, ultimately you need to practice each pulloff individually to make them sound of equal volume and tone. It's a lot of work, I'm afraid.

2: Have you tried p,i,m,i,m,i|m,i,m,m,i|i,m,i,p,m,i? This is what feels the most natural for me despite the index finger repeat between bars 63 and 64 (I rather take the repeat than the awkward double crossing). I also generally make a finger lose its turn when there's a slur in the alternation sequence, so that the i-m sequence stays in sync relative to the beats. Hence the repeat of m finger in bar 63. In general I think you should just find the most comfortable fingering for you without sacrificing the tone you want regardless of the difficulty level of the piece. Sometimes that means extensive practice of a fingering to make it feel more comfortable. I think often the discomfort at right hand fingering comes from the lack of finger independence, which then should be practiced so that the fingering doesn't feel uncomfortable anymore.

Clarines Y Trompetas: You are right that M. Delcamp omits the rests in the sense that he lets the bass notes ring over the rests. As far as the timing is concerned, he does take the rests into account. The reason he is doing that is probably to give the piece a better "flow". Often times the rests are used in the sheet music simply to fill the measures to their correct duration, and do not indicate the composer's wish to mute the strings. It is up to the performer to interpret the reason why a rest was added somewhere. Talking specifically about measures 33 and 42, indicating that the bass note should ring over from the previous measure would mean placing a tie across the repeat section, and that kind of notation, if not strictly invalid syntax, isn't generally used often. It's easier to put a rest in the beginning of the measure and let the performer decide whether they want to let ring or mute the string.

The degree of simplification used in the sheet music (as well as what interpretation means) became very apparent to me when I converted a polyphonic midi file that was created by playing keyboard, into sheet music with a computer program. The sheet was filled with ties, 1/64, 3/32 notes and rests in places where human sheet music writer would simply omit them for the sake of clarity, and as such was nearly impossible to read because of all the clutter. For example, lets assume that you as a composer want to play two chords each of a crotchet duration (and also lets assume that chords are identical with each other) . When you play the chords, there is always a tiny rest between the chords as you generally silence the first chord momentarily before playing it the second time. With legato playing the rest is just much shorter than other articulation types. This is just to show that sheet notation cannot be taken literally. Especially with guitar sheet notation there are lots implied and rules and conventions that the player needs to know by experience. When to obey the rests are one of those conventions, which are of course open to interpretation by anyone performing the piece.

Marko
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Jack Jarrett » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:52 am

Here is a rushed attempt before work to get an initial Malaguena posted.It is the only one I have had time to work on and it needs lots of work.

Youtube
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Marko Räsänen » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:30 pm

Hi Jack,

you seem to be tripping at the exact same place that I always do, namely the chord in measure 52 :)

Your pulloff section is very good. It obviously still needs some more work, especially with faster tempo, but generally considering the difficulty of it you did a very nice job!

May I suggest that you try the rasgueados at measure 1 beat 2 and similar with strumming the backside of your i,m,a,ch fingers to get a faster strum, more percussive effect? Also pay some attention to the timing of the triplets at the end of the piece. The high e's were played a bit too soon, so the rhythm became 2 times 16th notes and an 8th note instead of 8th note triplets.

I will be away the next week because of a holiday trip, so it looks like it will be a while before I'll be able to record my first attempts.

Has anyone noticed that the indicated tempo for the Sanz piece is insane?!? The trills seem impossible to execute cleanly at that speed. On the other hand they do seem to me impossible to execute at any speed CLEANLY at the moment. Sometimes I get lucky and manage to produce a trill that sounds like they're supposed to sound. Most of the times not :x
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Marko Räsänen » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:47 pm

Surely everyone's noticed by now, that in order to take the final exam of the course, they need to register at the Spanish forum and post at least two messages? The deadline for submitting your work is Saturday, I believe.
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Richard Judge » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:00 pm

Just posted mine Marko.
Good luck to everyone.
Many thanks to M.Delcamp, Geoff and the other mods for keeping this going. It is a pearl in an internet full of sand.
Thanks also to everyine in the D03 group this year. Hope to see you all in D04 in the Autumn.
:bravo: :merci: :casque:
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Marko Räsänen » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:59 am

Congrats to everyone for the diplomas!

And a big :merci: to M. Delcamp and moderators for making this possible!

One question though, it seems that the diploma pdfs only have our names, but not the grades or any other text at all, contrary to for example D02 diplomas. An oversight perhaps?
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Goran Penic » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:11 am

Marko Räsänen wrote:One question though, it seems that the diploma pdfs only have our names, but not the grades or any other text at all, contrary to for example D02 diplomas. An oversight perhaps?

No Marko. Your diploma is not well done and you should report it to Mr Delcamp.
I congratulate you on the great success. :bye:
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Giuseppe Gasparini » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:23 am

Congratulations to all the group DO3 :applauso: :applauso: :applauso: :discussion: :bye:
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Goran Penic » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:19 am

:merci: Giuseppe.
:bye:
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Jean-François Delcamp » Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:45 am

Marko Räsänen wrote:...
One question though, it seems that the diploma pdfs only have our names, but not the grades or any other text at all, contrary to for example D02 diplomas. An oversight perhaps?

:desole:
It's fixed now. :D
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Jack Jarrett » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:33 pm

Merci beaucoup M. Delcamp est les moderateurs! :merci: :bye:
Thanks everyone for all your input and helpful observations!
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Marko Räsänen » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:26 pm

Mark Bacon wrote:I can't seem to come up with RH fingering that feels right in the deceptively tricky measures 62-64.


Now I'm having trouble with those measures as well. I guess they just felt easier with slower tempo. That has become my major problem spot along with the bit where open 1st string quavers change into triplets.

Here's the best I can manage at the moment.


Youtube


Sounds kind of sloppy with missed notes here and there. Definitely more work required, but I think I'll try to post a version of Sanz piece next, before my neighbours start to hate me and the Malaguena :lol: I can use the break from it myself as well :roll:
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Mark Bacon » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:55 pm

Marko,

Definitely on the right track. I had to shelf this piece, I was seeing a huge decline in the progress vs work put in. Once I return to it I hope to include it in my regular rotation, and I think you'll be able to do the same. I kinda like the piece, way more than the Sanz anyway. This one's so tricky because so many techniques are involved: the open string pulloffs, the fast scales, the rasgueados, etc.

Some day!

Mark
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Re: D03 Classical guitar lesson 10

Postby Goran Penic » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:27 am

Bravo Mark, very good. Here is so warm, and I can't exercise :chaud: :(
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