tone and volume loss on the solid nylon top 3 ( G,B,E)

[harrycallahan]

Hello,
I'm new to classical guitar, have a cheap epiphone beater that actually has a good neck and pretty good intonation
It has surprisingly nice tone and volume playing on the lowest (wound) strings-- but, The solid nylon string (G,B,E)
are dull sounding, have maybe 2/3 the volume of the wound strings, no sustain, no nada ( They basically sound like gum bands stretched across a corn flakes box)

I'm so frustrated I'm considering getting a low tension and a high tension set, and using the low tension wound "D" for my G string .

I'd love to know if there is a string mfr noted for loud sustainy, bright top strings.

I've picked up a couple simple Bach pieces from watching you tube vids, and working on a gorgeous little Chopin etude. I love this music so much!! it's frustrating to hear it with such bad tonal problems ( like listening to a much loved but really scratchy LP form the pre digital days)

I'd be very grateful for any observations or advice

Harry Callahan

[GeoffB]

Hi Harry, welcome to the forum. Could I invite you to introduce yourself here?

Geoff

[Cincy2]

Harry,

Go to the website Strings by Mail. In the classical guitar section, look for the Experimentation Packs. One of those packages includes a group of treble strings made from materials other than nylon. The carbon or titanium strings are generally brighter and may help you with your guitar issue. The only way to tell is to experiment.

Cincy

[Vlad Kosulin]

When did you replace strings last time?
May be, your treble strings are just plain dead and need replacement.

[Blondie]

Hello,
I'm new to classical guitar, have a cheap epiphone beater .....
It has surprisingly nice tone and volume playing on the lowest (wound) strings-- but, The solid nylon string (G,B,E)
are dull sounding,

I think you answered your question in the first line. On cheap guitars the response is usually weaker as you go up in register.

Carbon strings (the brightest of all string materials) may indeed help, I bought a set of Galli Carbon strings for an old Hohner and they did make a difference (the same strings sound awful on my more expensive guitars).

[Vlad Kosulin]

Carbons will add brilliance, but not sustain.

[Erik Zurcher]

Harry, how old are the strings on your guitar? I change all my strings after 40 hours of playing time.

[es335]

Carbons will add brilliance, but not sustain.

I must object. Brilliance of course but sustain too! Oasis' carbon trebles have almost infinit sustain on my Kohno guitar. It's close to playing organ and other carbon strings are not much different!

[Vlad Kosulin]

Carbons will add brilliance, but not sustain.

I must object. Brilliance of course but sustain too! Oasis' carbon trebles have almost infinit sustain on my Kohno guitar. It's close to playing organ and other carbon strings are not much different!

It is guitar dependent then. Carbons have less mass, and guitar top may react differently because of this. I would assume that bigger string mass produces longer top vibration, but I've heard no noticeable difference in treble sustain for my Stenzel, which was built with regular nylon in mind. The sound was different, but not the duration.
May be, higher harmonics are heard somewhat better with carbons, and this creates illusion of longer sustain? Or your Kohno was built to produce as much high harmonics as possible?

[es335]

...Carbons have less mass, and guitar top may react differently because of this...

Hi Vlad,
this is a common missconception. Carbons have smaller diameter but due to their much higher density (I think it's almost twice that of Nylon) the same mass/weight. So the overall vibration energy from the strings will be almost identical. But due the smaller diameter, Carbons are more flexible and thus their frequency spectrum contains more higher harmonics than Nylon strings.

But on the other hand you may be right on the psycoacoustic fact that higher harmonics content may just simulate a longer sustain than really exists! Will observe that whenever I should happen to use Carbons for anything else like G once again.

[rojarosguitar]

My two pennies: string tension is an important factor, and not all guitars are built equal; some require higher tension to sound well, some require lower tension. Also mixing different strengths is no sin; Savarez offers eg. a mixed set with high tension carbon trebles and medium tension basses. By carefully choosing the tensions of the strings one can equalize the sound quite a bit, at least volume wise. You'll have to experiment a bit.

Also the response might depend on the age of the instrument and how much it has been played. If you play a lot and with the right strings, it might improve anyway.

Sustain is another matter; my experience is that carbon trebles increase sustain quite a bit (this is also the case on all Stenzel guitars I know).

That has maybe not only to do with the flexibility but also with the internal damping of the material in case. The connection between pitch, mass and tension is a bit more complex (see eg. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/string.html; BTW on that page there is an important remark about the eddect of stiffnes), but you can see that the mass, length and tension is in there, so to achieve a certain pitch at a certain string tension and length, you need to have the same mass. Because carbon is denser, the strings are thinner, but the resulting mass is the same.

Best wishes
Robert