segovia scales

[Chris Davis]

Now I have book envy.

sorry.

[Eldert]

Well Karla, I have got book, pretty hefty though.
Unfortunately the Shearing scale book shows very little fingering, in this repect the Segovia scales and many others at least guide you through the scales.
Regards,
Eldert

[charlesivey]

Hi Eldert,

Basically there are two philosophies at play with scales: (1) play as many open notes and use most powerful (or easier fingers) and (2) play fretted notes and cover the finger board with lots of "three notes" or more on one string, bringing in the little finger more. Carcassi was a proponent of the the former and the Segovia scales are more a case of the latter.

Carcassi scales are clearly easier and valuable and less frustrating for early stage players. Segovia scales require the 4 or little finger more, and usually demand position changes (his three octave C scales has one postion change.) I like fretted scales for building precision and timing as well as requiring position changes. You can also play scales using only one barred postion such as those posted by Hav in the online lessons.

I would build both types (or all three types) of scales into my practice, but require yourself to finger them the same way with the LH every time. What I mean is if you play the Segovia scale in C, always (when going up) use 1,3 and 1,3 for the A, B, C, D notes on the third string. Coming down, always go 3,1 and 3,1. There are good reasons you should do this.

Vary your right hand fingers, of course (see Florentin's many combinations), but make yourself use the same LH fingers. This means the first C (low C) always begins with 2 and the D above it with 4 when playing the Segovia C scale. The Carcassi C scale always begins with the 3 finger on C.

Just my opinion -- if any disagree, pitch in and clarify.

[Lane]

I currently using Bach's first two part invention for scale practice. I get some shifting, some awkward fingerings, and a nice melody to play. I also use different kinds of scale patterns for practice. One thing that I like about the three note/string scales is that you can move positions easily with these any time you want to. Some days I'll pick a shifting strategy; e.g. play two notes shift to the third play two notes and move to the next string following this pattern as hight as you can go and back.

Lane

[clem williams]

why not use violin methods such as fleschs scale system or even some of the kreutzer etudes their a work out for any one!

[kfisherx]

Well Karla, I have got book, pretty hefty though.
Unfortunately the Shearing scale book shows very little fingering, in this repect the Segovia scales and many others at least guide you through the scales.
Regards,
Eldert

Most of the Shearer scales are done in one position which makes them more straightforward to finger. This is a wonderful sightreading book. I use it a few times a week just to improve my sightreading. It is hefty as can be though isn't it? You'll never need another scale book now.

[Classicalguitarman15]

I find the scales extremely useful because of the shifting.

[warpoet]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion of scales is the issue of string squeaks when shifting on the lower three strings.

Segovia's scales have many shifts on lower strings, and practising them helped me learn the finer points of minimizing squeaks. On the other hand, when performing I tend to avoid shifts on the lower strings because of the squeaks. Today I mostly use scales that only have shifts on the treble strings.

Thoughts?

warpoet

[Brent]

...when performing I tend to avoid shifts on the lower strings because of the squeaks.

Squeaks are caused by moving the finger before the tension has been released. The string is still being depressed, at least partially. The finger needs to come up until it clears the string before the hand moves. Or, it's possible to move the hand while the finger is lifting, but the finger must be maintained in place with no motion relative to the string until the string is cleared. Use guide fingers on higher strings when shifting.

This is something that must be practiced, so that you're not limited in the notes you allow yourself to play.

Brent

[warpoet]

...This is something that must be practiced, so that you're not limited in the notes you allow yourself to play.

That is true in general, but when playing high speed passages squeaks often arise even when shifting technique is highly developed. The complex movement (lifting the fingertip completely off, shifting, then resetting the fingertip) breaks down at high speeds, and I deal with this by shifting on the treble strings for fast passages. For this reason I have little use for the Segovia scales, which call for many bass string shifts that could be played on treble strings.

But I understand and respect different points of views on this.

warpoet

[Logan]

J. F. Delcamp in the sheet music section has graded scales from grades 1 -6 that are good. For beginners the grades one are all you need for now. then progress accordingly. I may be black balled for this but I find the segovia scales rather impractical. I prefer the Shearer scales and more so the delcamp scales.

[warpoet]

J. F. Delcamp in the sheet music section has graded scales from grades 1 -6 that are good. For beginners the grades one are all you need for now. then progress accordingly. I may be black balled for this but I find the segovia scales rather impractical. I prefer the Shearer scales and more so the delcamp scales.

Excellent - the Delcamp scales are a perfect example of avoiding shifts on the bass strings and performing them on the trebles instead. For rapid scale work - or for improvising - I prefer this approach to the Segovia scales.

[Brent]

Just for clarification, I don't find the Segovia scales particularly useful for improvising or general playing. I find them of great value as a technique practice, because they force you to pay attention to things like smooth shifting and eliminating squeaks.

Brent