1/2 XV Barre Issue - Please Help

[rrobbins]

In Parkening's arrangement of Satie's Gymnopedie n. 1, there is a tricky 1/2 XV Barre chord, which I believe is an inverted G major chord...please correct me if I am wrong.

Now that I think about it, I might know the issue, but I want to check with more advanced players. For some reason, I have only been barring the first two strings, rather than the first three strings. I am guessing that it will still be tricky, but it might help.

My issue is getting the D natural on the 15th fret to ring. My 2 finger on the B dampens string 2. If the stars are lined up right, I might get it to ring 1 in 10.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards,

Rick

[LFP]

RR Yes to first inversion passing G Maj chord over a Pedal E. Use a three string Barre with a collapsed first finger first joint. Assuming that you have your fretting hand "around" enough those details should have a higher success rate.

[Grahamb]

Firstly I don't know this version but I would also use a barre on the first 2 strings only. Then the 2nd string D is clear to sound. This makes the whole thing easier IMHO.

I think editors/arrangers should make clear what they really mean by a half barre by using a fraction e.g: 2/6 or 3/6 or 4/6 to show how many strings should actually be barred it's not always 3/6
OTOH I usually work this out for myself and see it as an essential part of learning a piece.

Graham

[lam]

For some reason, I have only been barring the first two strings, rather than the first three strings. I am guessing that it will still be tricky, but it might help.

My issue is getting the D natural on the 15th fret to ring. My 2 finger on the B dampens string 2. If the stars are lined up right, I might get it to ring 1 in 10.
Rick

As LFP pointed out you need to collapse the first joint of your index finger. Since the physiology of the hand will vary some from person to person you have to make the determination whether it is more effective for you to bar two or three strings. Also, for my hand, I find it helpful to apply more pressure toward the thumb side of the fingertip rather than straight on. I find it makes the joint more rigid.

Larry

[ramsnake]

You also need to adjust your posture so as you can get your LH right around the front of the guitar. Don't be afraid to get your nose right on the upper bout!

Youtube

[Gerry]

In Parkening's arrangement of Satie's Gymnopedie n. 1, there is a tricky 1/2 XV Barre chord, which I believe is an inverted G major chord...

I find this fiendishly difficult to play - I don't think that my index finger is willing to collapse sufficiently. I can, however, play it more reliably by not using a barre at all, but by playing the first note of the measure with 2, then sliding 2 up and playing the chord with G2 D1 B3. Finger 4 then plays the two final notes. The thumb has to be above the finger board, not under the neck. Perhaps not quite kosher, but I find it works ok.

The chord EBDG (in isolation) could be labelled E minor seventh.

[ramsnake]

That is a good solution also, but damned if I can get my 1st and 2nd fingers to fit in at the same fret!

[Gerry]

That is a good solution also, but damned if I can get my 1st and 2nd fingers to fit in at the same fret!

Your video demo makes the barre look so easy. But I just can't avoid damping that D, the same as rrobins, when I try it. Maybe one day in the future ...

Can you tell me, is it considered bad form to have the left thumb floating above the finger board in the way I've suggested, or is it supposed to be at least anchored on the side, similar to the way you've shown in the video?

Gerry

[ramsnake]

Nah Mate! It doesn't have to be anchored! Quite often having it waving around a bit!

[getzcha]

may i suggest douglas niedt website for some insights for playing >12th fret:

http://douglasniedt.com/techtipplayinginhighpositions.html

[Gerry]

may i suggest douglas niedt website for some insights for playing >12th fret:

http://douglasniedt.com/techtipplayinginhighpositions.html

Thanks getzcha. A very helpful site. I found the advice on thumb position handy - but still can't bend that index finger joint sufficiently.

Gerry

[mainterm]

My issue is getting the D natural on the 15th fret to ring. My 2 finger on the B dampens string 2. If the stars are lined up right, I might get it to ring 1 in 10.

Hi Rick,

My suggestion is this:

Well...before everything else I guess my suggestion would be to not make 9 mistakes in a row. I'm guessing you are exaggerating that a little bit, but seriously, there is a method of practice which some people call "no mistake" playing. It makes sense, especially when working through tough spots (and here I mean spots that are tough for you, not necessarily technically or generally hard spots).

Anyway:

1. When you do get it right 1/10 times analyze what you did. When you get it wrong, analyze what happened. Really pay close, close, close attention to figure out the difference between your "on" times and your mistakes (and even the differences between the mistakes). Slowing the passage way, way, down will help with this and help you identify more specifically where you lose control over what you are doing. The goal is to have *complete* control. If you have to go down to 30 or 40 bbm, and work your way back up, it will pay off because you will discover exactly where things are breaking down (pay attention to your whole body and not just your fingers when doing this).

2. Use a 1/3 barre, don't let your thumb become unanchored and don't focus too much on how well you can "compress" the joints of the 1/index finger. I don't find this passage all that difficult really, and when I play it, my first finger isn't really bending all that much.

Cheers,

JK

[rrobbins]

Thank you very much for all of the responses, the link and the video. I was a bit wrapped up in NCAA basketball this weekend and the Memphis Tigers, so I did not have a chance to login to the forum. Unfortunately, I am at work right now, so my guitar is at home.

I should have included some of the preceding measures (listed at the bottom). I play the F# at the beginning of the measure with finger four which might be part of the problem. Would you please let me know what you think about this fingering?

I am still trying to find the right tempo for this piece. On the score, it says slowly and mournfully. Parkening seems to play this portion of the piece a bit slower than the rest. For now, I am trying to play the entire song at the same tempo (65 -70BPM). If I play the measure below 50 BPM, this part is pretty solid, but in my opinion 50 BPM is a bit slow for the rest of the piece. It works ok, but it seems like an eternity getting to this part. My guess is that 60-80 BPM would qualify as slowly, but please correct me if I am wrong. I understand the term mournfully, and I get a feel for it when I play this piece. Does mournfully have anything to do with tempo, or is it strictly expression? From an online source, I read Adagio = slowly and gracefully, which is why I ask. When I started this piece, I assumed that mournfully was solely related to expression and not tempo.

Thanks again for all of your help and any future help.

I am sorry for the scroll bars in the attachments, but if you scroll down a bit, you should be able to see it all.

Gym1a.jpg

Gym1b.jpg

Gym1.jpg

Best Regards,

Rick

[owl]

I am sorry for the scroll bars in the attachments, but if you scroll down a bit, you should be able to see it all.

Just a left click on the attachment will bring up the entire picture... no need to scroll

Owl

[rrobbins]

Just a left click on the attachment will bring up the entire picture... no need to scroll

Owl

Thank you.