How do YOU practice scales?!

[neo]

Hey im a beginner and use the scale book which is given on trinity college site. That book seems very good. But could someone review that and give me their opinion?

Thnx

[Scott_Kritzer]

I work for speed and accuracy both in one practice session, going from longer to shorter scale lengths. Then, after I work all my scales I introduce scale excerpts from pieces that I am either currently playing or will be playing someday. Here's how it goes:

I. Longest Scales
Segovia Scales, (all of them), without a break - slow (I work free, rest stroke, middle knuckle work, i/m and m/a fingerings, and prepared stroke here).
II. Shorter Scales
Two Octave Scales - I bump up the metronome, (I work on string crossing here as well as trying to increase the speed).

III. Even Shorter Scales
One octave Scales - now I'm moving near my metronome limit. Only working on speed. Perspiration begins....

IV. The Shortest - w/o the right hand
Alternation Bursts - short rhythmic bursts with the right hand only. Very rapid. These are the equivalent to a runner's wind sprints.

I find that this is the best way to both increase speed/endurance as well as keep your scales accurate.

Here's a suggested ratio, and this is moderately fast - you can start as slow as you need to - just keep the ratios about the same: Segovia Scales, (w/o a break) - 72 bpm; Two-Octave Scales- 112 bpm; One Octave Scales - 132 bpm; Alternation Bursts - 168 bpm.

Okay, now I'm warmed up - dang hot by now. So I work the heck out of scales from .Capricho Arabe, Sevilla, Etude 12, (VL),, etc.

This, believe it or not, takes about 20-30 minutes, AND, I've already practiced some of my repertoire. I do scales every other day, alternating the other day with Arpeggios. Scales are great for syncronizing the hands, (timing).

I hope this makes sense.....

Scott

[Chris Davis]

Wow, scott that was really in depth.


I have questions:
-What sort of rhythm do you play the scales with? (168 bpm, right, but scales in quater notes, eigth, 16th?)
-Are you alternation bursts similar to Scott Tennants Speed bursts in pumping nylon? (where he talks about scales specifically, I mean).
-For the alternation bursts are you just playing a single string? Rest stroke or free stroke?

Sorry to quiz you like this, I'm just curious. Thanks!

[Scott_Kritzer]

The scales are quarter note beats - 16th notes to the 1/4. But these are, in most cases, pretty fast. Although I've done faster, I'm below these times right now. It takes a couple of months to start really getting some substantial speed. Again, the times are relative.

I have heard great things about Scott Tenant's book, I've only briefly looked at so I don't know if we're talking about the same idea.

And yes, Alternation Bursts on one string, usually the first string. I do them predominantly with rest stroke.

Thanks for the questions!.

This has really helped me by the way, I'm not inherently a fast scale player, (I prefer the arpeggios), but it has helped me get pretty decent scales and actually enjoy doing them as well!

[seramon]

Thanks Scott!.
Something to look forward to after I get through phase one...........

[john w]

While studying Jazz guitar I practiced my scales and modes in every key very slowly. I would concentrate on a key a week all over the fretboard, paying attention to scale/chord relationships, intervals, triads and inversions. I would spend one hour a day seven days a week on this. I played each scale continuously for that hour without stopping and with the metronome set in the 60-80 bpm area. I found that playing slowly, precisely and with as little stress as possible in my hands allowed me to play at much higher tempos cleanly and effortlessly. Looking back on it I think that one of the best things I did during this excercise was SINGING every note that I played for this hour. I also praticed singing my exercises away from the guitar while naming note names and visualizing my fingers on the fretboard. Since I am returning to CG I will use this exercise again for hand health in particular right hand accuracy and stamina.

[JohnRoss]

One thing nobody has mentioned so far on this thread is volume, so maybe I'm mistaken in thinking it's important to practise quiet scales. It seems to me that when you are working on your speed ('cos let's face it, we all want to sound like guitar heroes), there is a tendency for the loudness to creep up, which means you are wasting finger muscle energy which you want to go towards speed. These days, I am practising repeating scales piano first then mf, and saving the f or ff for really slow scales. And I have found recently that playing quietly, imagining you are trying not to wake the baby in the next room, has another advantage, that it obliges you to put your RH fingers in position before playing the string, otherwise you get a fuzzy naily sound because you tend to move the nail too slowly as you pluck the string. But as I said, I might be barking up the wrong tree altogether.

[estebanjuan]

I spend on average about 30 minutes a day on the practice of scales. I usually aim for a speed of about 80 to 100 bpm on the metronome. I sometimes go too fast but this is a recipe for disaster. You end up losing the pulse and it simply sounds sloppy unless of course you are highly experienced in your scale playing and know what you are doing. I have made the mistake of trying to play too fast but now I start off slowly usually using rest strokes and gradually build speed after gradual repitition. I am currently working on two and three octave C and G scales both major and minor (natural, melodic and harmonic). I practise the scales using im, mi, ma, am and imam and I have also tried ia, and ai.
I also make sure that the left hand is placed in a relaxed and comfortable manner.

John Mills once said

'Scale practice must be done most of the time to a metronome; not particularly to see how fast a scale can be played, but more importantly to how fast a scale can be played, but more importantly, to give the pupil a solid rhythmic pulse which eventually will be become natural and inbuilt.'

From an article entitled Notes on Technique by John Mills
Guitar the magazine for all guitarists September 1982.

In this article he also recommends practising scales using p and i in the right hand, quote 'as this is good for passages using scales in the bass part in 16th and some 17th Century music......He goes on to say that the p and i fingering is not used much in Great Britain but that he has seen it used with great speed precision in other countries.




Esteban Juan

[estebanjuan]

Hi Scott

I play my three octave scales in either triplets or quavers and play the two octave scales starting with a crotchet and then using quavers. My speeds are currently between 80 bpm ma or am and 100 to 120 im or ma. I have also started playing long major and minor scales using a combination of imam. What type of rythmn should I aim for and what speed do you recommend? I have tried playing at faster speeds but I loose accuracy. Can you you advise me?

Thank you

Esteban Juan

[Scott_Kritzer]

Esteban Juan

Thanks for your question. The tempos you mentioned for your scales may or may not be fine, those are relative. It sounds like your not going too fast, that you are being conscientous about your approach and that is good!

I think it's best to stick to slower tempos/longer scales, working towards faster tempos/shorter scales in the same session. That way, as you go through your scale practice, you're increasing your speed but shortening your distance, (this helps you 'feel' how to go fast with fewer mistakes).

What is more important is this; are your hands set up for speed?

There are very few guitarists who have raw speed regardless of their technique, (how they hold their hands and move their fingers). Most of us need to understand and implement principles of positioning and movement that will enable us to reach our potential, (again, our potential, in this case, scale speed, will be relative).

I find the lack of awareness to these principles to be the biggest inhibitors to reaching our fastest scales. And hey, like driving and skiing, going fast is FUN!

Here's an offer - if you'd like to send me a video of you playing your scales I'd be happy to give you my opinion of how your hands look and what I might suggest!

BTW - thanks for reminding me to do scales in triplets - I need to do more of these.

Scott

[tedguitar]

I use the Royal Conservatory book as well as the Segovia diatonic. I usually start with chromatics then move to the major scales and minor, followed by arpeggios and slurs... a great left hand warm up is in "Pumping Nylon" by Scott Tennant Bk 1. I start out slow and gradually work the tempo faster with the metronome.

tedguitar

the metronome is your friend

[estebanjuan]

Hello Scott

Before I play a scale I analyse the various techniques required for each hand so that I will have some chance of getting through it comfortably. As you pointed out lack of attention to the principles of correct positioning and movement (in both hands) seem to be one of the inhibitors to achieving ones potential as a player. One of my previous teachers used to get me to do a series of technical exercises combining the left and right hand. I used these a lot as a beginner and I still use them for warm up sessions prior to practising longer or more challenging scales. For example, I might commence my practise session with a chromatic scale on the sixth string starting on the low F. I place the first finger of the left hand down on the string behind the first fret of the 6th string. I prepare the right hand and sound the note four times using imim, rest stroke. I then leave the first finger in place and repeat the same process with the second finger on the fret above. Again I sound each note four times using imim, rest stroke. I move to the third fret with the third finger and correspondingly the fourth fret with fourth finger. In the past I have done this on all six strings. I find the chromatic scale using all four fingers allows the pupil to build strength and endurance in the hand in preparation for more difficult passages; and it does not have to be confined to the low F. For my grade 5 I did chromatic exercises on each string, extending the scale up as far as the twelfth fret. Speed can be accomplished but it takes time and effort and careful attention the correct positioning of both hands. I look forward to discussing this with you again.

Yours sincerely

Esteban

P.S I am not able to send you a video at present as I do not have access to a video camera. However, I have some further information regarding the playing of scales I would like to post to you on the forum.

[Scott_Kritzer]

Esteban,

Thanks again for reminding about chromatic scales - these really are fantastic.

Here's a cool little trick I learned from the Assads, especially fun to try with chromatics; place your left hand thumb so that it falls behind fingers two and three. This supports the less coordinate aforementioned fingers AND puts the hand in great position every time.

I found that when I practiced this for a few months my position shifts tightened up tremendously - owing to the fact that it's not how fast you shift but how well you're position is set BEFORE you shift.

All good things come to those who practice their scales!

Keep up the good work.

Scott

[mrcold]

Im actually a guy by the way.

HAhahaha...

i thought you were a girl... silly avatars.

in case any of you were wondering...
i am NOT beethoven.. he has actually been dead for quite some time now.

[unique]

Thanks guys that was informative.