Tremolo--are some people physically unable to achieve it?

[Denian Arcoleo]

I have a theory regarding the difficulty of learning tremolo.

Simply put, I think it becomes much harder to learn if (when) you are older.

True, but everything is harder to learn when you're older.

[Praeludium]

Isn't it a matter of habit (ie. the more older you grow, the more you (often) less the habit to learn. A 16 year old is supposed to go to school and learn things all the day) ?
Is there evidences it's a neurological fact ? If there is, how do we know how much influence it has on the actual process of learning ?

I mean, it sounds like saying the quality of your playing or your memory decrease with the time.
Boulez still conducts, which is an intellectually and physically immensely demanding task, at an advanced age.

[Denian Arcoleo]

I mean, it sounds like saying the quality of your playing or your memory decrease with the time...

Well, if there's one thing that's for sure it's that our physical and mental abilities deteriorate with time. I thought that was universally acknowledged and clearly shown by real life. Is nothing a fact any more?

[Robbie Flamerock]

I mean, it sounds like saying the quality of your playing or your memory decrease with the time...

Well, if there's one thing that's for sure it's that our physical and mental abilities deteriorate with time. I thought that was universally acknowledged and clearly shown by real life. Is nothing a fact any more?

Of course things head south in the long run, but there are factors that can improve or detract from the formation of habits, for instance. It is known that exercise can bring many beneficial results for the elderly. Heck, I saw an article about a 100 year old marathon runner. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ecord.html
So, you can see that there are many factors involved, but yes, things deteriorate. But that can be used an an excuse as well

[Derek Gripper]

Tremolo results from the integration and ease of the whole body. Some people can achieve this by a series of discrete exercises sped up slowly with a metronome, but it is not really how the body works. Tremolo is one of those things that happen when you;re busy thinking about something else - like when you;re busy playing great music. Let it happen - let it be messy, let it be rough, let it be out of time, let your fingers move in a circle, and play the piece beautifully. The most wonderful thing to experience is when the tremolo suddenly starts playing itself, and becomes so smooth that it feels like one continuous movement. You can't make this happen. It happens because of an integration of the body which can not be built up bit by bit. If you struggle to let your fingers play, then I recommend having a course of Alexander Technique lessons from a teacher with a sense of humour. Really this rather indirect approach will get you to a tremolo far faster than a practice approach premised on atomic science.

Love,
Derek Gripper

[tigras]

The 5 finger tremolo (pimami) which very few people have mastered is by far superior to the 3 finger (pami) classical. Flamenco uses 4 finger (pimai). The 5 finger may have a slower tempo but, the roll (trill) is exceptionally even.
I use this on recuerdos de la alhambra, schubert's ave maria. Once you've excelled in the 5 finger technique, you will never want to go back to the 3 finger - although the 4 finger will seem easier to play and used in any kind of music written for tremolo.

To master the 5 finger requires a practice regime of playing very slowly and building up the tempo until you can attain a 4 - 5 cycles per second that is, 5X6 = 30 reps per second. Again, smart practice is key. Having achieved my success in this technique, I will be happy to answer any questions for those enthusiasts regarding the 5 finger tremolo. It took me a year after I mastered both the 3 and 4 finger techniques.

[George Crocket]

Hi Tigras.

Welcome to the Delcamp classical guitar forum.

If you have not already done so, please have a look at our welcome page for more information about the forum and its rules, then please introduce yourself here for a proper welcome.

[Steve Freides]

Improving one's tremolo is going to be different for every person, depending on what their particular weakness is. Speaking as a lapsed classical guitarist (I was a cg major in college a few decades ago and have only practiced sporadically since), my tremolo is better now than it ever was when I was practicing hours a day because, for me, the issue is mainly to relax enough to let the rapid motion happen.

Some, perhaps most, people will do as well or better by playing a fast, sloppy tremolo and simply experiencing that happening for a while before even beginning to think about control.

To digress slightly, I think metronome work in general falls into those two broad categories. There are those times when you want to work slowly and gradually increase in speed, stopping when there is even a hint of a problem and fixing it before going faster, but then there are those times when you simply need to fly at the speed of light or what feels like that, keeping up with the metronome and getting whatever notes you can. There are things to be learned from each, and how much of each to do and which deserves the primary focus will be different from person to person and from time to time. Everyone who reports playing tremolo better after a layoff has just proven to themselves that they simply needed to relax about it more, IMHO.

If I was really serious about improving my tremolo or any other aspect of my playing, the first thing I'd do is find a teacher. Even a few months of lessons could set the stage for a few years of steady improvement given the right match of student and teacher.

-S-

[James LR]

Is there a basic tutorial on this site that teaches how to do tremolo? It is one of my favorite sounds in classical guitar and I would like to know the proper way to practice it.

[KeMe]

Welcome to the Delcamp forum, James. I would like to invite you to introduce yourself to the other members of the forum in the Introduce Yourself subforum here.

Kay

[Blondie]

The 5 finger tremolo (pimami) which very few people have mastered is by far superior to the 3 finger (pami) classical. Flamenco uses 4 finger (pimai). The 5 finger may have a slower tempo but, the roll (trill) is exceptionally even.

There are several things here that are misconceptions or simply demonstrably incorrect.

-'very few' people have mastered it? What flamenco players have you been listening to? I can't think of any current players who haven't mastered it.

-It's 'far superior' to to classical tremolo? Nonsense, already dismissed that one in another thread. They suit different purposes and crucially, at different tempi.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68072&start=15

-Flamenco uses PIMAI - ....er well you could play it that way just as you could play the classical tremolo PIMA.
Few do however - the standard five note flamenco tremolo pattern used by Ricardo, Sabicas, PDL and just about everyone else since is PIAMI

..and last but not least, the flamenco tremolo is no more 'even' than the classical tremolo/ In fact one could argue entirely the opposite. Through choice and the way the modern flamenco has evolved, many players from PDL onwards *choose* to play it 'unevenly' as I explained in that other thread.

[Derek Gripper]

Even tremolos can be rather boring. I heard a certain famous guitarist playing the Barrios tremolo piece - was breathtaking for the first 30 seconds and then I started to get irritated. The guitar makes such lovely noises, growls and squeaks and scrapes and scratches...why make it sound like a midi plug-in? And imagine how many walks in a sunlit fields of spring blossoms you could take with all the time saved after you've discarded the "clean-even-tremolo" prejudice. : )
(and sometimes you may feel moved to use an elbow between the PAM and the I. Can sound GREAT.)