„The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuco

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Re: „The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuc

Postby Luis_Br » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:32 pm

Soller wrote:but was also illiterate.

Recent researches sais it is a legend. He was actually literate. He just didn't write socres.

Soller wrote: It does not mean "that there is no original". Original in this sense is more a "poetic license", I agree, but the scores written by Turibio Santos, Joao Borges, et al. are very consistent along the time and are considered to be representative of what Joao has composed and played.

So why Dilermando Reis version has a different rhythm?
Dilermando lived with Pernambuco in the same house, and that is when he learnt the piece from Pernambuco.
Turibio Santos version is also with a different rhythm figure than Barbosa-Lima's.
Barbosa-Lima sais he use that rhythm because it is a maxixe.

I found a post on a Brazilian forum where Fabio Zanon says he finally could listen to Pernambuco's own recording. He said rhythm is sometimes eihgth-sixteenth, sometimes those 3 sixteenth (like Dilermando's way). He said maybe it is always those 3 sixteenth, but he couldn't listened to it because sound quality of the recording is very poor...

I agree most arrangements does not change the melody/harmony and notes are almost the same. But the rhythm changes completely the swing of the music.
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Re: „The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuc

Postby Soller » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:17 am

Luis_BR
Sorry, but I wrongly mentioned Turibio. From all the scores I have on "Sons" he is the only one who did not write it as a "maxixe".
I was willing to refer to the scores of the "maxixe" version, which is the most played by Brazilian guitarists (although I have some records from Leandro Carvalho and a few others who play it "Turibio" style).
Regarding the João's illiteracy, I am based on a book edited by MEC/FUNARTE in 1982 on João's life (it is a monograph), which has several mentions to João as being illiterate. I have not seen any recent research on it - if you have them handy, please inform the sources.
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Re: „The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuc

Postby Luis_Br » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:48 am

You are right, most Brazilian guitarists do not play like Turibio's rhythm. Leandro studied with Turibio, so now you know what is a probable reason he plays that way. But Leandro also made a great study on Pernambuco's life. His master degree thesis is a good source. On the booklet of one of his CDs you will find he says Pernambuco was actually a literate. On the booklet of his second CD you will find a picture of Pernambuco together with Agustin Barrios.

Here you will find a picture of Joao Pernambuco with some writings to his sister in 1913, signed by Pernambuco, a document which would prove he was actually literate:
http://www.chiquinhagonzaga.com/nazaret ... ambuco.pdf
(look at page 2 of the pdf)

I am also curious why Turibio wrote the rhtythm that way, which is really not very usual for this piece. I have already asked some friends who know Turibio, to ask him the reason, but I still haven't had an answer.

Anyway, Dilermando's rhythm for that piece is also not very usual, and it seems to be the most appropriate. Dilermando's interpreataion is one of my faovourites.

Another interesting tale. Most Pernambuco's recordings have two guitars. Pernambuco as solo player and an acompaniment, by a guitarist called Zezinho. The interesting thing is that Zezinho later went to USA and he became the voice of Walt Disney's parrot Joe Carioca ("Ze Carioca" as we say here).

cheers,
Luis
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Re: „The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuc

Postby Soller » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:19 pm

Luis_BR
Thanks for the Interesting site. If the picture is true, then João could not be illiterate as reported in many books.

I have more then 20 records of "Sons", and only Turibio Santos, Leandro Carvalho and Caio Cezar (another Turibio's student? may be...) do not play it as a maxixe. Although some others (Garoto, Sebastião Tapajós, Baden Powell and Yamandu) play very different arrangements harder to recognize...
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Re: „The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuc

Postby Dave the Great » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:08 pm

Tarbaby wrote:
Dave the Great wrote:Still not sure what the little octet flowers symbolize in the Delcamp version.


Hi Dave.

M. Delcamp often uses those symbols in his arrangements. They mean for you to dampen the preceding note. I haven't seen them used much anywhere else.

Alan


Sorry, I didn't get back to you earlier... didn't realize you had replied to my question.

Very interesting - thanks for the answer.

Is there a spot he has a key for his symbols used? I am looking at Delcamp's version of Paganini Caprice 24 and noticed he has hollow diamond shapes in Variation III and also dots underneath the notes in Variation I (which I assume means to play it very disconnected or staccto sounding)

Thanks for your help!
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Re: „The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuc

Postby simonm » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:45 pm

Luis_Br wrote:
Here you will find a picture of Joao Pernambuco with some writings to his sister in 1913, signed by Pernambuco, a document which would prove he was actually literate:
http://www.chiquinhagonzaga.com/nazaret ... ambuco.pdf
(look at page 2 of the pdf)


I explored this site a bit - its really interesting. Chiquinha Gonzaga was an absolutely amazing lady. I'll have to listen to some of her music. If was was a modern day US citizen she'd end up in jail.

http://www.chiquinhagonzaga.com/biografia.html
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Re: „The sound of bells" sons de Carrilhoes, Joao Pernambuc

Postby singvomblatt » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:18 pm

Thanks everybody,

"sometimes, I don't know, you search and search and cannot find it yourself. Therefore nice to have friends here" !!


nice to have so many interested people around. I played this piece now many times and I think it is quiet charming!!! again thanks everybody!!!

greetings: Singvomblatt
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