You know you need a 640 scale when...

Ergonomics and Posture for Classical Guitarists, Aches and Pains, Injuries, etc...
canoe man

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby canoe man » Tue May 12, 2009 5:01 am

Two things 1. The spread from 1 to 4 is what counts, not the length of your thumb. 2.Fat extra padded fingers need room. and 3. That high Bflat can be reached without breaking the arpeggio by sliding up on the sixth string notes going up to the B flat on the second string, then jumping back on the open low A.

jasonCHT

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby jasonCHT » Tue May 12, 2009 1:31 pm

This thread is a real eye-opener to me. I have a small thumb-to-pinky span of 21.5 cm, no wonder my 650 cm/ 52 mm cg with its thick D-shaped neck ( a 30-year old Yamaha laminate) has been such a pain to handle.

Now that there is a way round this small-hand limitation, can anyone suggest/recommend some 640 scale instruments, perhaps a list with names, scale and nut width, neck shape (C- or D-shape or V-shape, flattish, etc), price, personal comments/exeprience/ feel/playability, source (where to order or buy) etc. Someone mentioned alhambra senorita and Pavan640 - what else? Thanks

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AsturiasFan
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650 mm with capo is 615 mm

Postby AsturiasFan » Thu May 14, 2009 6:14 pm

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A 650 mm guitar with a capo behind the first fret has an effective scale length of 615 mm.
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In another thread, Michael N kindly gave the link http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator to compute distances between frets.

Use the fret calculator to get the tables for the 650 mm and 615 mm scales. Be sure to use the 12 frets, mm
and acoustic options. Removing the first row of the 650 mm table, equivalent to putting a capo behind the first fret, gives a table that is extremely close to the 615 mm table.

If you get no benefit from putting a capo on a 650 and tuning back down to standard, then it seems going to a shorter scale would be pointless.
You say picado, I say picato, but my terrier insists on piccata sauce.

ActionFigure

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby ActionFigure » Thu May 14, 2009 7:19 pm

jasonCHT wrote:This thread is a real eye-opener to me. I have a small thumb-to-pinky span of 21.5 cm, no wonder my 650 cm/ 52 mm cg with its thick D-shaped neck ( a 30-year old Yamaha laminate) has been such a pain to handle.

Now that there is a way round this small-hand limitation, can anyone suggest/recommend some 640 scale instruments, perhaps a list with names, scale and nut width, neck shape (C- or D-shape or V-shape, flattish, etc), price, personal comments/exeprience/ feel/playability, source (where to order or buy) etc. Someone mentioned alhambra senorita and Pavan640 - what else? Thanks


I have been scouring the net looking for guitars that are smaller at the nut for my 8" span hand but that are also quality instruments. I wish there was a list... the search goes on.

canoe man

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby canoe man » Thu May 14, 2009 9:26 pm

There are Pavans that have 50mm nut. I bought a guitar off e - b a y that came from that town in Mexico that starts with a Para something. Great sound 49mm nut too narrow for my fingers, I spread 8.5'' by that, wrong, standard. I play a 52mm and a 53mm, I wish they were both 53mm or even 54mm. Think nut width for your fingers and scale reach for your 1 to 4 spread. If you think about it for the span of the first five frets for the difference from one scale length to the next is minimal. Perhaps working on flexabilty would help more.

tree-hugger
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Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby tree-hugger » Fri May 15, 2009 3:19 am

Antonio Picado make 640, 630 and 620 mm scale length guitars. I have been corresponding with them with regards to their 640 mm scale length guitars. They have told me that this has the same body as their standard 650 mm models, and a 52 mm neck width at the nut. The 640 mm simply has the bridge moved half a centimetre closer to the sound hole, and the neck shortened by 0.5 cm as well. The 630 and 620 models have a different body size and neck dimensions, but I did not seek that information from them.

Prudencio Saez will also sell you their models in the above scale lengths. I am still awaiting a response from them regarding neck dimensions.

At least one member of this forum, vasco, has a 640 mm Picado model 60 guitar.

George.

justtin

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby justtin » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:18 pm

can someone please explain what a 640 scale is?

hesson11
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Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby hesson11 » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:13 pm

justtin wrote:can someone please explain what a 640 scale is?


640mm is the length of the vibrating string, from the saddle to the nut. The more-or-less "standard" length is 650mm.

-Bob

thebrewery

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby thebrewery » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:17 pm

Good Topic
I have an 8" span.
I have to really work hard at reaching some notes. My current guitar is a Yamaha Flamenco at 650mm.
Guess I am a candidate for a small scale guitar.
Has anyone found a good deal (reasonable price) on a 640 or less with radiused fretboard?

My searches have revealed a Pavan TP-30-64 and an Alhambra Senorita at 636 mm.
I don't know anything of the quality of these guitars. I think the Pavan comes with a radiused fretboard
but not sure about the Alhambra.
The Pavan is around $1500 the Alhambra is less but I forgot how much.

thebrewery

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby thebrewery » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:42 pm

I originally posted this on the chinese ball post.
I'll put my 2c worth in the discussion
I bought an Isoflex ball at Big 5 sporting goods.
Its like a rubber balloon.
It has some beads or beans inside, you squeeze it and it supposed to strengthen your hand.
I have been using it for 5 days, 3 sets of 10 squeezes, twice a day.
The pain I had prior to using the Isoflex has diminished quite a bit.

Not sure if the success is the Isoflex ball or I am just more aware of my hand position when
stretching for notes or Thumb pressure when barring.

chrismateo

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby chrismateo » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:00 pm

Very eye opening this thread is. My thumb to little finger length is under 8 inches. Technically speaking, would it be a better idea to invest in a 640mm? I knew playing on a standard size CG would be harder because of my small hands but my real question is: Is it a better idea to have my hand adapt to the size of the fret board or buy a smaller guitar?

rburns

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby rburns » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:58 am

If you know you need a 640 scale, then check out the Hippner/Bernabe redwood/Indian rw I have for sale on the classical guitars and lutes for sale forum. I've also placed it on e - b a y for the next three days (ends Friday, 24 July at 6:45 PM Central Standard Time). It's wonderfulfor those with smaller hands. :)

http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41229

Rick

Bonita

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby Bonita » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:51 pm

your fourth finger cannot possibly reach the fret itis supposed to go.

I have an 8 inch spread, and am playing a 650 mm scale. Most of the time it is fine.

Can a 10mm difference (650 vs 640) make such a real difference?

What happens when you move up the neck--is there room for your fingers?

I do spend some time each day stretching my fingers and hands to maximize what potential I have.

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lagartija
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Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby lagartija » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:08 pm

at_leo_87 wrote:do they make 645 for the indecisive people?
what about if you can stretch 9 1/2 inches but you're lazy and you want to get a smaller guitar so you dont have to stretch so much? 8)


My sweet old 1967 Giannini is 645. Good thing, too! In the piece I have been working on for the past month or so (Villa Lobos Choros #1) as I work on a new section, each new stretch seems beyond what I believe I can manage. (that guy must have had really big hands!) but slowly, slowly my left hand is expanding..... [they WERE the same size originally!]
RH pinky - i spread =6.75" ; pinky to thumb spread=8"
LH pinky to i spread=7.5" ; pinky to thumb spread=8.5" :shock:

This has been in just a month or two! I'm not sure I would be able to play this piece on a 650 any time soon. But I will manage it on THIS guitar. :mrgreen: Nut is 50. (I think.... it isn't in front of me at the moment)
When the sun shines, bask.
__/^^^^^o>
Classical Guitar forever!

tree-hugger
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Location: Wollongong, Australia

Re: You know you need a 640 scale when...

Postby tree-hugger » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:02 am

lagartija wrote:My sweet old 1967 Giannini is 645. Good thing, too! In the piece I have been working on for the past month or so (Villa Lobos Choros #1) as I work on a new section, each new stretch seems beyond what I believe I can manage. (that guy must have had really big hands!) but slowly, slowly my left hand is expanding..... [they WERE the same size originally!]
RH pinky - i spread =6.75" ; pinky to thumb spread=8"
LH pinky to i spread=7.5" ; pinky to thumb spread=8.5" :shock:

This has been in just a month or two! I'm not sure I would be able to play this piece on a 650 any time soon. But I will manage it on THIS guitar. :mrgreen: Nut is 50. (I think.... it isn't in front of me at the moment)


Well, I am again envious of the generously proportioned hands of others. My two hands are more or less identical, at around 5.75 inches (14.5 cm) from pinky tip to index tip, but 9 inches (22.5 cm) from pinky tip to thumb tip. To cope with these short finges I have recently "graduated" from a 650 mm to a 640 mm scale length. Can't say I am finding it much easier at present, but then again I never expected it to. Instead, I just assumed it would mean slightly less stress on the left hand and fewer problems in the long term.

George.


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