2007 Sakurai-Kohno model Special - US$6,750 (OBO/Negotiable)

[Tom]

Tom,

I for one would like to know where on the net your friend bought his Kohno Special for $5000! I search the net almost everyday...especially for Kohnos. In any event, when I sold my 1998 Kohno Special for $4800 I was TOTALLY desperate. And, I'd say that whoever sold your friend the 2008 Kohno Special for a mere $5000 was desperate too. I don't think that $5000 for a brand new Kohno Special is a "fair" price...it's a steal. Kohnos are so underrated. It's interesting to note that Robert Ruck (in an interview) gave high praise to Kohno and considers him to have been one of the greatest guitar builders of our time...and, new Ruck guitars sell northward of $18,000!

Anyway, I'll reiterate that I think quixilver's asking price is a fair starting point for any final negotiations that may ensue...

Well, I agree my friend bought from a seller who was in urgent to sell for cash. But if you go to the popular auction today and see a new listing with item number : 130354561157, you can see a 2000 Special is asking for anything between US$4700 to US$ 5500 only. SoI still feel the $6750 is indeed high price.

Tom

[quixilver]

... if you go to the popular auction today and see a new listing with item number : 130354561157, you can see a 2000 Special is asking for anything between US$4700 to US$ 5500 only. SoI still feel the $6750 is indeed high price.

IMHO, it's not really surprising since mine is 7 years younger (perhaps 8+ years coz I bought it this year in a brand new condition).
Anyway, how much is your offer, Tom ? Just try your luck, maybe I'm in a good mood (or simply desperate) in this Christmas

[gojin]

Tom, your point is well taken. Thankfully, I've just GASed myself out this week (in fact, I need to downsize my collection soon). So, I don't have to get personally involved with how much quixilver's guitar sells for in the end.

But, I do hope that any eventual buyer and quixilver work out a deal which brings everyone a happy ending...including the guitar;)

[chlimson]

Hi gojin, guess the guy who got a good deal (then) from you may not find it too great a deal anymore, as the USD had depreciated quite a fair bit versus the Asian currencies since 2007.

[gojin]

Chlimson,

Hmmm...that's funny. I thought it was the other way around. With the value of the US dollar weaker today than it was back then, the guy would have had to spend more US dollars today to get the same guitar. I think that by definition we end up paying more for imported goods when the value of the dollar falls.

In any event, being that the Kohno Special I sold him was near mint, possibly the last ever signed by Kohno himself and made the same year that Kohno died...I think that there is some extra intrinsic value to the instrument (at least for some collectors). Make no mistake, the guy who bought my guitar got a great deal. And, I'm sure he has no regret whatsoever with his purchase. It's a great instrument and will unlikely depreciate further in any kind of economic environment...except for an "End of the World" scenario.

[yylik]

Hi all:
I paid a visit to Quixilver (and his beautiful Kohno Special guitar) last Sunday. I would like to thank him, for being such a nice guy, sharing and showing his guitar to me, despite the fact that I made it clear to him that I could not afford his guitar at this moment:)
His Kohno Special is a gem, it is one of the most gorgeous looking guitar I ever come across. The first look is first love. I can sense the ammount of time and effort Maestro Masaki had put into the constrction this master peice - gorgeous.
For sound wise, to be frank, I don't think I am knowledgable enough to comment much. However, the guitar has good projection, and seperation of voice. I notice that the guitar project well, and loud despite being tested in a vast indoor opening, complicated with noisy background (Esplanade Singapore Lobby area).

Quixilver:
I will be back to SG again this coming July . Hopefully, I will have enough cash to make her mine:) Thanks again for the time, and sharing.
Cheers.

[quixilver]

I notice that the guitar project well, and loud despite being tested in a vast indoor opening, complicated with noisy background (Esplanade Singapore Lobby area).

Very sorry for this one, I didn't realize there was a concert on that date and many people came for it. Maybe next time I must choose a better environment.
Thanks a lot for your nice comments and hope to see you again soon

[iGuitar]

Hi quixilver, why do you want to sell this guitar ? I thought it is a very nice sounding guitar, I heard when you were playing at Lung's house in Perth. Is this the same guitar ?
Well, I guess you know who I am. I just know that Lung used to learn to play classical guitar from your father by the way, he must be a great CGist !

Mark

[quixilver]

Yes, I remember you Mark... You're correct, Lung is one of my father's ex-student... He plays very well and he won a CG competition in Perth few years ago if I'm not wrong
Anyway, this is the same guitar and I've put some reasons on this sell the earlier pages of this thread.

[need2Practice]

I think the Kohno brand suffers a bit from the difficulty of figuring out where a particular model fits into the line at a given time. For instance, I understand that until 1982 the models were named after their retail price in yen, so the Model 30 might have been the top of the line in one year and the middle of the line in another. In '82 the names changed to Professional-J (is there anything but "J"?), Special, etc., but it's not clear if there's a hierarchy to these models or if they're just different in construction (i.e. different bracing, woods, etc.). To top it all off the company's web site still lists both a Kohno and a Sakurai model Special, with no clue as to the differences between the two or even who makes the Kohno Special model now that Mr. Kohno has passed on. All of this makes it difficult for the semi-casual observer to determine what is being sold and whether or not the asking price is fair.

More on topic, and while I've got the ear of some experienced Kohno players, I played a 2009 Professional-J last month and was enchanted by its bell-like trebles and sensitivity to small changes in touch. Is the Special model considered a step up in sound quality from the Pro-J, or is the difference more of an aesthetic one related to the amount of detailing, etc? Anyone care to comment on the differences between these two models?

[Brent Hutto]

Darrell,

I have an older M. Sakurai guitar and prior to purchasing it I asked its builder about various models made at that time (1970's). He said the Model 5, Model 10, Model 20 and so forth were considered equivalent in build quality and sound with the differences among models being ornamentation and the attractiveness of the wood. I would think that is perhaps true to a certain extent even today.

As I understand it, the large divide in basic character is between what are now labeled "Sakurai-Kohno" and "Masaki Sakurai" model lines. There are major differences in bracing and minor differences in proportions between the two lines with models within each line being quite similar, stucturally.

[quixilver]

Is the Special model considered a step up in sound quality from the Pro-J, or is the difference more of an aesthetic one related to the amount of detailing, etc? Anyone care to comment on the differences between these two models?

If i'm not wrong, the latest hierarchy of Sakurai and Kohno guitars are something like this :
Sakurai Concert-'R'osewood
Sakurai Concert-'J'acaranda
Sakurai Special
Sakurai 'P'aris 'C'ompetition

Kohno Professional-'R'osewood -- *discontinued*
Kohno Professional-'J'acaranda
Kohno Special
Kohno Maestro

I have tried almost all of them except the Kohno Pro-R and Sakurai PC and I would say there are similarities between them. However, I would generalize the higher models are better in workmanship and materials, while the sound are gradually bolder (or should I say "Fatter"), IMHO. However, each guitar has its own voice which sometimes we can't really classified accurately according to the models and different player might has their own opinion as well. Hope this helps

[need2Practice]

I have an older M. Sakurai guitar and prior to purchasing it I asked its builder about various models made at that time (1970's). He said the Model 5, Model 10, Model 20 and so forth were considered equivalent in build quality and sound with the differences among models being ornamentation and the attractiveness of the wood.

Wow, this is surprising to me as the Sakurai-Kohno website says that prior to '82 models were named after their retail price in yen. E.g. the model 10 sold for 100,000 yen, the model 20 for 200,000 yen, etc. It seems that 4 times the price for a model 20 compared to a model 5 is a lot to pay for a guitar of equivalent build quality and sound, but I suppose it's possible. I know that in the steel string world you can spend $2000 for a great sounding Martin, or you can pay their custom department thousands more for roughly the same guitar with lots of fancy pearl inlay, so there's certainly precedent for very expensive ornamentation.

quixilver, thanks for clarifying the use of the letters representing different woods in the model line. It seems obvious now that you've pointed it out, but I wasn't making the connection. I'm still unclear as to the differences between the Special and Professional models in a given line, but I suppose the only way to know this for sure is to play as many of each as I can get my hands on.

[Brent Hutto]

Darrell,

I have no trouble believing, say, a four-to-one price range with roughly constant sound and playability. After all, they are built on the same workbenches to the same design and by the same hands. And I'm sure from the beginning Kohno (and later Sakurai) were dedicated to getting the best sound possible from all their guitar. Like in the steel-string world, a lot of people are willing to pay extra for looks. Especially "better" woods. And fancy wood costs money, as does the rather extensive labor involved in some kinds of ornamentation.

That said, I also suspect that what quixilver alludes to about the modern models held true back in the day. When the woods and even the little fancy bits and pieces of woodwork are changed between models, it is bound to make them have subtle differences in sound and response, no? So I think there's still plenty of room to discover one prefers, say, a Sakurai Pro-J to a Sakurai Special even if master Sakurai were to say it is basically the same bracing, voicing and so forth.

And finally, unlike the ancient models some of the modern ones have a cantilevered fingerboard extension if I'm not mistaken. That is a huge difference and would no doubt add considerably to the production cost as well as changing the sound and response. Given my limited experience with my old M. Sakurai, I'd consider a Sakurai with a floating fingerboard to be a dream instrument that (if I were a rich man) I'd go to great lengths to find and try out. Definitely not your father's Kono, so to speak!

P.S. I looked it up. It's called the "-Masaki Sakurai- Model Maestro-RF ( Raised Fingerboard Model )" and I want one. OK, I want to at least see one in person.

[quixilver]

Darrell,
I have sent an e-mail to Mr. Sakurai when I was considering to buy this guitar and at that time I need to choose one of another model including the Pro-J. Well, he answered that the major difference is only between the label of Sakurai and Kohno. They have different construction, while within the same label, the concept are basically the same. The more expensive models are made using better materials to provide better quality in the overall sections.
Does the Special better than the Pro-J ? I would say "should be yes"... But again, guitar is very subjective matter to each person. No exact measurement to tell how good is good.
One guy told me, he tried the Pro-J and he feels that it was awful. OTOH, one maestro told me he prefers the Model 20 more than Model 50 or Special which are the higher models.
Anyway, the answer is yours... Just try it then you'll know