Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:26 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:03 pm
Dear Friends:
Once more, here I am with the statistics of our participation in this thread for the last month, March 2019.
Hi, Jorge,
Thank you for your continued dedication to these two threads. I actually have a big desire to finish all the pieces in Opus 60, but Opus 35 is taking all my time right now. I am learning a lot more about technique. I am now working hard on correct right-hand fingering. We don't talk much about right-hand fingering, because using the modern technique of replacing rest strokes with strong free strokes, you can muddle through. But it is not good technique. A secure right hand requires planning the fingering of string crossings and always knowing what right-hand position you are in and why. Applying these principles takes time. It is not just practicing. It is also a lot of reading about the rationale and the right way of planning right-hand fingering. However, I have high hopes of one day coming back here and finishing these exercises. Most of the last 10 exercises are also musically interesting.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:32 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:26 am
...
Hi, Jorge,
Thank you for your continued dedication to these two threads. I actually have a big desire to finish all the pieces in Opus 60, but Opus 35 is taking all my time right now. I am learning a lot more about technique. I am now working hard on correct right-hand fingering. We don't talk much about right-hand fingering, because using the modern technique of replacing rest strokes with strong free strokes, you can muddle through. But it is not good technique. A secure right hand requires planning the fingering of string crossings and always knowing what right-hand position you are in and why. Applying these principles takes time. It is not just practicing. It is also a lot of reading about the rationale and the right way of planning right-hand fingering. However, I have high hopes of one day coming back here and finishing these exercises. Most of the last 10 exercises are also musically interesting.
Hi, Yisrael:

Yes, I keep on managing this thread, people occasionally step in. Moreover there is still some "unfinished business" related to it: you still have to post the last few pieces of Opus 60 (and by keeping the thread open I'm encouraging you to do it :D) and also, I'm reviewing all my previous renditions and posting better ones, in accordance with the improvements in guitar playing we all experienced these past two years. So, together with the new pieces of the Opus 35, I'm now readying as well the Opus 60 #18 for posting. It is taking me longer than I had expected, though, but the fact is that if I stop playing a given piece for an extended period of time, my "fingers" simply forget it or, if they still remember it, my play will not be as good as before. For that matter, I've also selected a few pieces from Tárrega I used to play and I incorporated them in my daily practicing. But there will be a limit, of course, and, in the end, you will only have, at any time, a few pieces you might proudly show to your family and friends... :D

As for fingering, I'm afraid I'm not as disciplined as you are, though I consider that I have a sufficiently good right hand technique. Indeed, I'm familiar with the rest stroke - the Opus 60 #4, for instance, I play it all with rest strokes - but it is true that I easily fall back on free strokes. I also have no problem with arppegios. As for scales, well, I never really practiced them in a systematic way, it is something I'm lacking of. For instance, still today I find difficult to play, fast enough, the scales that turn up om Sor's Opus 60 #3. it is horrible... :(.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

Trentino
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Trentino » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:54 am

I have spent the last two or three days reading this thread with great interest. Very useful, inspiring. I am thinking of doing something less ambitious but perhaps equally interesting. I Have discovered Rob Mackillop's very useful page on Sor's Sixteen Easiest Pieces (Tecla) replete with videos. https://robmackillop.net/guitar/fernando-sor/ Just downloaded the Tecla edition (PDF) of Sor's Sixteen Easiest Pieces (Tecla) which contains 7 pieces from Opus 60, 4 from Opus 44, 2 from Opus 31, 2 from Opus 35 and 1 from Opus 51. An interesting collection of Sor's easier pieces.
Thanks to everybody who has contributed to this thread and to Rob Mackillop for the fantastic resource.

P.S. Sor's Sixteen Easiest Pieces are described as being written by Sor for 'absolute beginners'. Thinking back to my 'absolute beginner' days I don't think I could have tackled more than three of them in the first six months. So not for absolute beginners .

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri May 03, 2019 10:56 am

Dear Friends:

April/19 is gone and it is time, now, to publish the corresponding statistics concerning our participation in this thread. So, here we go... :D

The first graphic depicts the number of posts published by all participants this last April.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - Apr_2019.png

The number of active participants is dwindling :(. However, there was a new all time participant, trentino, who is considering to initiate a new thread similar to this one but using a selection of 16 Sor studies published by Tecla. I wish him all the best in his endeavour.

The graphic that follows represents the daily ramp up of posts and views in April 2019. Both curves are almost flat, reflecting the low participation fo Forum members and viewers in general in this thread.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread, posts and views - Apr_2019.png

As for new records posted in April, not counting further versions of renditions already posted, they are shown in the graph below... none!

Monthly Posted Records, 2016-2019.png

Continuing, the next graph presents the Table of Posted Records (TPR) as of April 30th, 2019.

Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 30Apr19.png

Please notice the grading line showing the Elementary, Novice and Intermediate pieces in the Opus 60. Please notice also that this is just a picture file. However, by pointing at any individual cell in the corresponding TPR Excel file stored in my Google Drive, the reader is directed to the corresponding post in this thread where he will have available not only the audio file but all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

Finally, the last graphic depicts the total number of monthly posts and views in this Topic in this last April. The curves are down, reflecting the low participation in this thread for this past month.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - Montlhy Posts & Views_Dec18-Apr19.png

And this is all. I thank you all for your support to this Project.

Best regards,

Jorge
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

BrianTakamine
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by BrianTakamine » Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 am

After quite a bit of trying, tonight I just got # 1 memorized, and recorded. While it seems visually to be a very simple piece, the melody jumps around quite a bit, which makes it harder than one thinks it should be.
Takamine CP132SC Solid Cedar top; Savarez 520 R Strings

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Thu May 16, 2019 8:30 am

BrianTakamine wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 am
After quite a bit of trying, tonight I just got # 1 memorized, and recorded. While it seems visually to be a very simple piece, the melody jumps around quite a bit, which makes it harder than one thinks it should be.
Hi, Brian,
Is your name really Takamine? If so, that is pretty cool.
The piece is actually not so simple at all. It is 3-part polyphony. Are you keeping your thumb firmly planted on either the 5th or the 6th string when not in use? And planting your i, m, and a fingers on strings 3, 2, and 1 respectively? That should help you deal with the jumping around to the point where you are not bothered by it at all.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Thu May 16, 2019 11:05 am

BrianTakamine wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 am
After quite a bit of trying, tonight I just got # 1 memorized, and recorded. While it seems visually to be a very simple piece, the melody jumps around quite a bit, which makes it harder than one thinks it should be.
Good, Brian, post your record and let us see how you are playing this #1. Positive critic will help you improve :D.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

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Jorge Oliveira
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Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:53 pm

Dear Friends:

May/19 is gone and it is time, now, to publish the corresponding statistics concerning our participation in this thread. So, there you are... :D

The first graphic depicts the number of posts published by all participants this last May.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - May_2019.png

The number of active participants is dwindling, unfortunately :(.

The graphic that follows represents the daily ramp up of posts and views in May2019. Both curves are almost flat, reflecting the low participation fo Forum members and viewers in general in this thread.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread, posts and views - May_2019.png

As for new records posted in May, not counting further versions of renditions already posted, they are shown in the graph below... none!

Monthly Posted Records, 2016-2019.png

Continuing, the next graph presents the Table of Posted Records (TPR) as of May 31st, 2019. Notice that there were no new entries at all this past month.

Sor's Opus 60 recorded pieces as of 31May19.png

Please notice the grading line showing the Elementary, Novice and Intermediate pieces in the Opus 60. Please notice also that this is just a picture file. However, by pointing at any individual cell in the corresponding TPR Excel file stored in my Google Drive, the reader is directed to the corresponding post in this thread where he will have available not only the audio file but all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

Finally, the last graphic depicts the total number of monthly posts and views in this Topic in this last April. The curves are down, reflecting the low participation in this thread for this past month.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 60 thread - Montlhy Posts & Views_Dec18-May19.png

The statistics of the last few months show that this thread is no longer serving the purpose for which it was created some three and a half years ago (in Dec-2016). There are still Forum Members roaming it but none is posting new records. So, unless there are new records of Sor's Opus 60 pieces in the current month of June, I will stop publishing this sort of statistics concerning our participation in this thread. I thank you all for your support to this Project.

Best regards,

Jorge
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

Smudger5150
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Smudger5150 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:47 am

Hi Jorge,
I was hoping to work on Op 60 alongside Op 35, which I started recently as you know. So I was planning to post my attempts here still.
I don't necessarily expect people to comment on this thread if their attentions are turned towards Op 35 but I just thought I'd let you know that it's still in the minds of some people out there in the delcamp forum world (i.e. me!).

By the way, thanks for all the good work you've done organising these threads.
"Music washes away the dust of every day life." Art Blakey

"If I don’t practice for a day, I know it. If I don’t practice for two days, the critics know it. And if I don’t practice for three days, the public knows it." Louis Armstrong

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Jorge Oliveira
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:47 am

Hi, Smudger5150, thank you for your post above. Indeed, the pieces in Opus 60 are, in general, easier than those of Opus 35, specially in the beginning. It is an introductory opus, prepared by Fernando Sor already in his late days and intended for those who wanted to initiate themselves in the study of the classic guitar but could not afford to buy his Method for the Guitar :( (please check in the Boijes Collection for scores in the public domain). So, my advice is that you study and post, first, all the Elementary graded pieces of the Opus 60 (#1 - #11), and only then move to the Opus 35, starting with the first four Elementary pieces as well and progressing towards the Novice one and and so on. But, rest assured, once you post anything in the Opus 60 thread, I'll comment it (and, probably, Yisrael as well), update accordingly the corresponding Table of Posted Records and will keep on providing the monthly statistics above :D.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

soltirefa
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by soltirefa » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:52 am

Not sure anybody posted this video here.


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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:41 am

soltirefa wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:52 am
Not sure anybody posted this video here.
Great video about phrasing options, thank you for posting.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

richtm
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Let’s learn Sor’s Opus 60 together, shall we?

Post by richtm » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:47 am

Yeah, I regularly search if there is something new from Tilman.
I know it's off the actual subject, but have you seen this:?

It's him with his wife... enjoy :casque: :casque: :casque: 8)
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