Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Discussions relating to the classical guitar which don't fit elsewhere.
User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:40 pm

Alexander Kalil wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:43 pm
Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:11 am
the sequence .. E4 A3 G3 .. Not only did Sor explicitly instruct to play them with p, but even without Sor, it is necessary to do so .. the sequence .. E4 A3 G3 in Measure 28 .. those have to be played with p regardless of what Sor says .. However, Sor explicitly says to play them with p.
I strongly advice against this type of dogmatic view regarding fingering. We should remember that fingering is not part of the music. <snip>
However,
  1. Sor did mean it to be fingered with the bass played entirely by the p. What you might say is that that is about as relevant as Mozart indicating that the 5th finger should be used in the Turkish March (written for pianoforte); the guitar is a different instrument that requires a different technique. Sor's guitar is a different guitar from ours and we require a different technique. That may be true.
  2. Against that, I would say that Sor wrote this as an exercise. This is the first time that I have followed Sor's RH fingering (and I have already played a lot of Sor exercises). Normally I ignore his RH fingering, and feel perfectly free to totally change the LH fingering also, when it serves the music. However, in this case, I have found it very educational in particular to follow his RH fingering strictly. I cannot always do that, because my thumb is not agile and accurate enough. But it is interesting.
  3. I am looking for the maximum benefit in these exercises, as I do not have time to play anything else. All my practice time is currently devoted to the Sor exercises. And they have been enormously helpful.
  4. I am also experimenting with the notion that fingering is part of the music; that is, when the fingering does not allow playing legato, instead of refingering, as I would have done until now, I will play a very clear staccato. If there is a shift that takes too much time to do in the beat, I will make it a glissando, etc. I have heard, read, and seen that even top guitarists incorporate limitations in fingering and technique into the musical expression. I am not arguing with you that fingering is not THE MUSIC, but I am taking a less radical approach that says that mechanical necessities and limitations can be worked into the music.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:30 am

Dear Friends:

One more month, March/19, has elapsed and it is time, now, to publish the corresponding statistics concerning our participation in this thread. So, here we go... :D

The first graphic depicts the number of posts published by all participants this last March.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 35 thread - Mar_2019.png

The number of participants was half of that of the previous month, just four, albeit quite active ones as we will later.

The graphic that follows represents the daily ramp up of posts and views in March 2019. Quite a quiet landscape for the first half of the month

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 35 thread, posts and views - Mar_2019.png

As for new records posted in March, not counting further versions of renditions already posted, they are shown in the graph below. Just three, as you can see, my own rendition of the #4 and the renditions of the #3 and #4 posted by Yisrael. Well, not a big number, but better than in February, when there was just one new record posted, my own of the #3.

Monthly Posted Records, Jan19-Dec19.png

Continuing, the next graph presents the Table of Posted Records (TPR) as of March 31st, 2019.

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 31Mar19.png

Please notice the grading line showing the Elementary, Novice , Intermediate and Advanced Intermediate pieces in the Opus 35. Please notice also that this is just a picture file. However, by pointing at any individual cell in the corresponding TPR Excel file stored in my Google Drive, the reader is directed to the corresponding post in this thread where he will have available not only the audio file but all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.

Finally, the last graphic depicts the total number of monthly posts and views in this Topic in this last March. Although the number of active posters dropped to half when compared to the previous month, the number of posts increased somewhat, as well as the number of views.

Delcamp Forum, Sor's Opus 35 thread - Montlhy Posts &amp; Views_Jan19-Dec19.png

And this is all for this past month. I thank you all for your support to this Project.

Best regards,

Jorge
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Alexander Kalil
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:53 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Alexander Kalil » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:55 am

Yisrael, when stating that "fingering is not part of the music" I have in mind the fact that many top musicians will start by removing all fingering indications from the score in order to focus on the music. And many will tell you they prefer musical scores without any fingering indications in them at all. Also you'll find that Sor himself did not povide his advanced studies from Op. 6 and Op. 29 with any fingerings. That's talking about advanced players. For intermediate students, however, I agree that experimenting with the fingering approach of other, more proficient players can be very helpful and instructive on their way for developing their own style, all the more if it is the fingering approach of the composer himself who was, according to contemporary reports, a great guitarist in his own right.

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:40 pm
even top guitarists incorporate limitations in fingering and technique into the musical expression
Sure, they incorporate limitations of their own technique and fingering approach into the musical expression.

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:54 am

Alexander Kalil wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:55 am
<snip> Also you'll find that Sor himself did not povide his advanced studies from Op. 6 and Op. 29 with any fingerings. That's talking about advanced players.
Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:40 pm
even top guitarists incorporate limitations in fingering and technique into the musical expression
Sure, they incorporate limitations of their own technique and fingering approach into the musical expression.
  1. Brian Jeffery, Sor expert and editor of the Tecla edition, seems to imply that Sor did intend for his fingering to be inferred in Op. 6 and Op. 29.
  2. Sure, they incorporate limitations of their own technique and fingering approach into the musical expression.
    Agreed. That is exactly what I meant. I also completely ignored Sor's LH and RH fingering, until I discovered that his fingering is educational.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:08 am

Alexander Kalil wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:32 pm
...
Jorge - yours is an excellent rendition all round. The next step, I think, is to detach the upper voice more clearly from the lower voice. Also notice that the first note of the melodic figure mentioned above, as in Bar 1 and 2, should ring for its full notated value (dotted quarter); you tend to mute it when the bass line starts.
...
Please find, below, my V2 of Sor's Opus 35 #4, where Alexander's recommendations were all addressed: the dotted notes ring long enough (I think) and most melody notes (not all, I'm afraid) are more detached from the lower voice than in my previous rendition. The fact that the strings are new contributes a bit to this separation - the trebles are still quite vibrant. As for the tempo, and contrary to my stated intention, I lowered it from 1/4 = 90 bpm in my V1 to 1/4 = 81 bpm. I could go higher but it would take me too much time (and I'm already in the #5) and I'm more comfortable like that.

The record was produced with the Zoom Handy Recorder app on my iPhone, the sound capture being made by an iRig microphone that connects to the iPhone via a Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter. The guitar used was my Kuniharu Nobe #8 (1972), fitted with Knobloch Actives CX 500 Carbon Double Silver, High Tension strings 6 days old and 7,67 hours of effective playing time. The resulting .wav file was then processed with the Audacity audio editor on Windows 10 to produce the .wma and .mp3 files below. Apart from cutting and splicing the audio wave file to eliminate some not so well succeeded sections, no special effects were added during the recording and editing sessions.

Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #4 (V2).wma
Sor, Fernando - Opus 35 #4 (V2).mp3


With this new record, the Table of Posted Records (TPR) becomes the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 03Apr19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Alexander Kalil
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:53 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Alexander Kalil » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:40 pm

Well done, Jorge, time to move on to other challenges. And just don't bother with speed at the moment; it is important to always chose a tempo you're comfortable with, as you did here. Speed will happen naturally along the way, with the continual refinement of your technical and interpretation skills.

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:31 pm

Alexander Kalil wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:40 pm
Well done, Jorge, time to move on to other challenges. And just don't bother with speed at the moment; it is important to always chose a tempo you're comfortable with, as you did here. Speed will happen naturally along the way, with the continual refinement of your technical and interpretation skills.
Thank you, Alexander, for your encouragement, I really appreciated. I have incorporated the #4 in my daily practice and I'll see if I succeed in increasing the tempo as I go along. Meantime, I'm now fully into the #5. I have it already in my fingers, and I'm slowly building up speed. Within a couple of weeks I'll be playing it fast enough, I hope.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:38 pm

I'm now rehearsing Sor's Opus 35 #5. I have it already memorized. Its structure is relatively simple. It has two sections, both entirely repeated, where some of its phrases (A, B, etc.) are also repeated:
  • Section 1:
    • Phrase A: mm.1-4
    • Phrase B: mm.5-8
    • Phrase C: mm.9-16
  • Section 1 (repeat)
  • Section 2
    • Phrase D: mm.17-24
    • Phrase A: mm.25-28
    • Phrase B: mm.29-32
    • Phrase E:mm.33-40
  • Section 2 (repeat)
So, you really have to play 14 phrases in order to complete the piece. That's a lot... :D. Mind you, phrases A, B, D and E all start with the same set of notes 12 notes (the first one and a half measures of the phrase). This facilitates a little its memorization.

The time signature of the piece is 2/4 but I set my metronome as 8/4 in order to hear all the eight sixteenth notes in each measure. My tempo, for the moment, is 1/16 = 160 bpm, which is equivalent to 1/4 = 40 bpm. This is far from the Allegretto of nowadays (98-109 bpm in my metronome) and I must say that to achieve this speed is a total impossibility for me. Fortunately, in what concerns tempo markings, I saw in the Wikipedia, that:

These terms have also been used inconsistently through time and in different geographical areas. One striking example is that Allegretto hastened as a tempo from the 18th to the 19th century: originally it was just above Andante, instead of just below Allegro as it is now.

So, as Andante is 73-77 bpm in my metronome, well, though I don't think I'll be able to double my present speed, I think I can reach 1/16 = 200 bpm or even higher. The problem is to do that without too many mistakes :). Back to the guitar...
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:33 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:38 pm
I'm now rehearsing Sor's Opus 35 #5. My tempo, for the moment, is 1/16 = 160 bpm, which is equivalent to 1/4 = 40 bpm.
So, as Andante is 73-77 bpm in my metronome, well, though I don't think I'll be able to double my present speed, I think I can reach 1/16 = 200 bpm or even higher. The problem is to do that without too many mistakes :). Back to the guitar...
Jorge, thanks for your study notes. I was planning to keep up with you, but I was sick all last week, and I am currently behind. I am still working on a polished final version of #04. I am also well into #05 and #06. I actually am further in #06 than in #05. In #06, the obvious difficulty is constant shifting, and some of the shifts are difficult. But I am progressing very well with that. In #05, my main problem is making sense out of the melody. Also, you mentioned speed as a problem in #05. I am not having a problem with the speed as long as I follow Sor's left-hand fingering carefully. I am up to 1/4 = 60, and do not aim to play any faster. You did not mention right-hand fingering. Because the speed of the left-hand fingering changes is challenging, I am happy to use simplest p-i alternation for the right hand.
I am confused about measures 11 and 12. Chords (starting from measure 9; | marks the end of a measure): G Am G Am (rising melody) | G G Am B | Em F Am B (descending melody) | B G Am G |. Now, I am struggling to make sense out of that. Rising melody I am inclined to play crescendo and falling melody diminuendo. But how to finish it? I am inclined to play the Bs with emphasis (disharmony far from home) and then finish with the Am G as if it is a semi-resolution (which it is not, as far as I can hear). Any ideas?
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:57 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:33 pm
Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:38 pm
I'm now rehearsing Sor's Opus 35 #5. My tempo, for the moment, is 1/16 = 160 bpm, which is equivalent to 1/4 = 40 bpm.
So, as Andante is 73-77 bpm in my metronome, well, though I don't think I'll be able to double my present speed, I think I can reach 1/16 = 200 bpm or even higher. The problem is to do that without too many mistakes :). Back to the guitar...
Jorge, thanks for your study notes. I was planning to keep up with you, but I was sick all last week, and I am currently behind. I am still working on a polished final version of #04. I am also well into #05 and #06. I actually am further in #06 than in #05. In #06, the obvious difficulty is constant shifting, and some of the shifts are difficult. But I am progressing very well with that. In #05, my main problem is making sense out of the melody. Also, you mentioned speed as a problem in #05. I am not having a problem with the speed as long as I follow Sor's left-hand fingering carefully. I am up to 1/4 = 60, and do not aim to play any faster. You did not mention right-hand fingering. Because the speed of the left-hand fingering changes is challenging, I am happy to use simplest p-i alternation for the right hand.
I am confused about measures 11 and 12. Chords (starting from measure 9; | marks the end of a measure): G Am G Am (rising melody) | G G Am B | Em F Am B (descending melody) | B G Am G |. Now, I am struggling to make sense out of that. Rising melody I am inclined to play crescendo and falling melody diminuendo. But how to finish it? I am inclined to play the Bs with emphasis (disharmony far from home) and then finish with the Am G as if it is a semi-resolution (which it is not, as far as I can hear). Any ideas?
I’m glad you are doing better now, Yisrael, and I hope it was nothing serious.

Concerning my guitar practice, I’m also trying to improve the tempo of the #04. If played too slow the melody doesn’t stand out in my view. My V1 rendition was recorded at ¼ = 85 bpm, which was more or less OK (I couldn’t do it faster, anyway), but it was too crude (dotted notes, separation of voices, etc…). My V2 was more polished but I had to lower the tempo to ¼ = 80 bpm and, by doing so, the melody was a bit impaired. My aim is to eventually reach the 90 bpm. I’ll keep on trying.

I haven’t looked into the #06, yet, but it looks a bit like the #13 of Sor’s Opus 60, though a bit more difficult because some notes in the #06 are higher in the scale and you need to do some barrés. But it is doable, I think.

Now, the #05… well, it is not a jewel, it is a just a study to exercise your fingers, especially those of the RH. I’m using the p, m and i (but I could have used only the p and the i). As for the tempo, my problem is that, at the speed I’m playing already I can no longer rely on my sight reading skills (which are too poor anyway). So, I had to memorize the whole piece and because there are phrases which are common to its two sections, I, sometimes, mix up things… I’m presently at ¼ = 42 bpm, going up quite slowly.

As for the chords ending in measures 09 to 12, I see them differently from you (I’m assuming the full chord position):
  • m.09: G Major (tonic) – A Minor (tonic) – G Major (barré 3rd fret) – C Major (barré 3rd fret)
  • m.10: G Major (barré 3rd fret) - G Major (tonic) - C Major (barré 3rd fret) - B𝄰 Major (barré 2nd fret)
  • m.11: C Major (barré 3rd fret) – D Major (tonic) - C Major (barré 3rd fret) - B𝄰 Major (barré 2nd fret)
  • m.12: B𝄰 Major (barré 2nd fret) - open G - C Major (barré 3rd fret) - C Major (barré 3rd fret – you just pluck a single open G or the G in the 4th string of the C Major barré position)
Naturally, you do not use full positions to play the two note chords in the score, just two fingers a time :D.

Using your representation, starting in m.09 and simplifying the designation of the chords, we have, then:

| GM Am GM CM | GM GM CM B𝄬M | CM DM CM B𝄰M | B𝄰M opG CM CM |

As for crescendos (in red), diminuendos (in green), constant high volume (in orange) and constant low volume (in blue), what I do is the following:

| GM Am GM CM | GM GM CM B𝄬M | CM DM CM B𝄰M | B𝄰M opG CM CM |

I have no formal explanation for this, it is just how it sounds best to me. Does it make sense?
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:14 am

More polished version of Opus 60 #04
This was a real learning experience for me. I worked hard on clear voice separation and a smooth melody line. Of course, there is more to do.
My study notes:
  • My a finger is not good at playing apoyando. You occasionally hear that a note at the top of an ascending group is weak.
  • Transitioning between the p playing the bass line and i playing either the same string or the next string apoyando causes a shift in the hand position that is audible as a hesitation.
  • The jump in bar 15 from Am to D requires practice. I managed to improve it greatly by playing it very slowly and holding on to the C3 (C on 3rd string) as long as possible while preparing C#5+F4. When the C3 is released, all that is necessary is to slide the fingers 4+3 up one fret to D5+F#4. I think this now sounds smooth and natural.
  • The two-fret jump from D at the last beat of measure 31to Am at the first beat of measure 32 required attention because two fingers change strings and it is a two-fret shift. I made the job easy and smooth by playing the shift glissando, which means you can play it slowly and give yourself time to prepare the Am chord.
Please comment. That is what this forum is about. I am continuing to exercise #05 and trying to keep up with Jorge Oliveira.
Sor_Op_35_#04.wma
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:20 am

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:57 pm
As for the chords ending in measures 09 to 12, I see them differently from you (I’m assuming the full chord position):
  • m.09: G Major (tonic) – A Minor (tonic) – G Major (barré 3rd fret) – C Major (barré 3rd fret)
  • m.10: G Major (barré 3rd fret) - G Major (tonic) - C Major (barré 3rd fret) - B𝄰 Major (barré 2nd fret)
  • m.11: C Major (barré 3rd fret) – D Major (tonic) - C Major (barré 3rd fret) - B𝄰 Major (barré 2nd fret)
  • m.12: B𝄰 Major (barré 2nd fret) - open G - C Major (barré 3rd fret) - C Major (barré 3rd fret – you just pluck a single open G or the G in the 4th string of the C Major barré position)
Naturally, you do not use full positions to play the two note chords in the score, just two fingers a time :D.

Using your representation, starting in m.09 and simplifying the designation of the chords, we have, then:

| GM Am GM CM | GM GM CM B𝄬M | CM DM CM B𝄰M | B𝄰M opG CM CM |

As for crescendos (in red), diminuendos (in green), constant high volume (in orange) and constant low volume (in blue), what I do is the following:

| GM Am GM CM | GM GM CM B𝄬M | CM DM CM B𝄰M | B𝄰M opG CM CM |

I have no formal explanation for this, it is just how it sounds best to me. Does it make sense?
Thanks for the analysis. I am now moving to #05 full-time. I will take a deeper look at your comments, but right now one of the grandchildren is visiting. This is scheduled for Sunday.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:18 pm

powderedtoastman wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:27 am
...
And while I'm here... here's a sneak preview of number 5:

This is at a very reduced tempo and with the metronome, no repeats.
...
My goal I think is to perform this at quarter note = 100 bpm.... and I think I will do some of the exercises I've thought up, and post them here!
And 100 bpm is about double what I've just done. So, ambitious to say the least! But I think doable. :D
Hi Steve:

I timed you in the video above and you were playing at around 1/16 = 213 bpm. I have achieved today a tempo of 1/16 = 220 bpm (equivalent to 1/4 = 55 bpm). This is my limit, I guess. What prevents me to go a bit further is the fact that I don't sight read the piece while playing it, as you do - I had to memorize the whole thing and, playing at high speed, I tend to mix up the order of the phrases, make mistakes and play the notes inappropriately. Most probably, the rendition I'll post soon will stay in the 1/16 = 200 or just a bit more, I'll have to see.

You say you are aiming at 1/4 = 100 bpm (1/16 = 400bpm! :shock:), but, if you read my post of April 9th, may be you don't have to go that far. Apparently, Allegretto in those days didn't seem to have the same meaning as today's. In any case, at 1/16 = 400 bpm it ceases to be one of the "24 Very Easy Exercises, Opus 35, Book 1", as stated by Fernando Sor when he published Opus 35, it becomes just a flurry of notes and whatever musicality might exist in it will be gone.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Jorge Oliveira
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:17 pm
Location: Cascais, Portugal

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Jorge Oliveira » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:02 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:14 am
More polished version of Opus 60 #04
...
Please comment. That is what this forum is about. I am continuing to exercise #05 and trying to keep up with Jorge Oliveira.
...
Well done, Yisrael, quite an improvement over your V1 rendition :D. Using the apoyando technique you succeed, indeed, to better separate the upper and lower voices. And the tone is also quite good. One thing, though: you say you are not that good doing apoyando with the a. But where in the score do you do it? And can't you avoid it? It's that, though it can be done - and I do it in only one of the many compositions I've come across - the use of rest strokes with this finger is not quite popular because the strength and the precision of the pluck is less than the one achieved with the i and m... :(.

So, this is done, time to concentrate in the #5. I must say that I was surprised to learn that you were playing it already at 1/16 = 240 bpm! :shock: Not for me, though, I don't think I can do it. But at that speed it is still a pleasant piece to hear, no doubt. Much more than that and it ceases to be "very easy"- as was, supposedly, Sor's intention - and, in my opinion, the musicality is gone, fades away...

With this new record of yours, Yisrael, the Table of Posted Records (TPR) becomes the following:

Sor's Opus 35 recorded pieces as of 12Apr19.png

The corresponding Excel file (TPR) is stored in my Google Drive and any Forum Member can download and use it at any time. By pointing to any particular post, the reader will have available not only the sound or video file but also all the subsequent comments made by other Forum members.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1972 - Kuniharu Nobe #8, 658/52, Spr, IN RW, Tokyo, JP
1976 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.50, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
1979 - Ryoji Matsuoka No.40, 650/53, Ced, IN RW, JP
2014 - Hermanos Camps Master Nº 3, 650/52, CA Ced, MG RW, Banyoles, ES

User avatar
Yisrael van Handel
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: Modi'in Illit, Israel

Re: Fernando Sor, Opus 35 - shall we learn it together?

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:03 pm

Jorge Oliveira wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:02 pm
you say you are not that good doing apoyando with the a. But where in the score do you do it? And can't you avoid it?
Hi, Jorge,
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Let's just eliminate the a finger, as I use it only in two places. Agreed.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

Return to “Public Space”