notation software -which to use

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Theory and practice of composition and arranging for classical guitar, discussion of works in progress, etc.

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Steve J Rice

Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Steve J Rice » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:36 pm

Hi Guys,
just found this particular discussion. First let me admit I'm not a composer or arranging.
My reason for adding to this discussion is from the point of view of a guitar player who gets great benefit from using TEFview in particular (the free program for viewing Tabledit files).
Even though the timing is obviously quite "mechanical" it does provide an excellent way of seeing and hearing how the particular piece sounds. Gives the ability to play individual measures until I have them fingered and playing correctly and can be slowed down as I learn. All plus points as far as I am concerned.
Have tried Guitar Pro 4 5 and 6 but don't like the display whilst playing. Only highlights the note in the tabs. Musescore of course only highlights the measure not the notes. So all in all I prefer Tabledit.
Just my thoughts,
Steve

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Les Backshall
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Les Backshall » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:47 pm

Steve J Rice wrote:....Musescore of course only highlights the measure not the notes...
Musescore does highlight the notes, and uses a different colour for each voice.

Les
Lester Backshall, Guitar Maker - Aylesbury UK

GeertHendrik

Re: notation software -which to use

Post by GeertHendrik » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:26 pm

+1 musescore

Steve J Rice

Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Steve J Rice » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:11 am

Les Backshall wrote:
Steve J Rice wrote:....Musescore of course only highlights the measure not the notes...
Musescore does highlight the notes, and uses a different colour for each voice.

Les
I stand corrected, sorry Les. I suppose I should have made more than a cursory inspection before commenting. I will revisit.
One further advantage Tabledit has though is the enormous amount of classical and other tabs which Musescore currently can't seem to match (I could be wrong :? ).
Thanks again, Steve

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Les Backshall
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Les Backshall » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:51 am

Steve J Rice wrote:...One further advantage Tabledit has though is the enormous amount of classical and other tabs which Musescore currently can't seem to match (I could be wrong :? )...
Afraid so, Steve - have a look at this link:

http://musescore.com/sheetmusic

Over 50,000 at the last count.

Les
Lester Backshall, Guitar Maker - Aylesbury UK

Steve J Rice

Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Steve J Rice » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:04 am

Les Backshall wrote:
Afraid so, Steve - have a look at this link:

http://musescore.com/sheetmusic

Over 50,000 at the last count.

Les
Les, I owe you a debt of thanks. Have spent some time going over Musescore. First my mistake was it was the online playing which only highlighted measures. When I invested more time into Musescore your right; every note.
As to repertoire 50,000 of all genres, yes, but classical guitar not quite so many. Still without your invaluable advice I would not have come across Gerry Busch and his wonderful compositions. For that I will be eternally grateful. Now onwards and upwards, still investigating other compositions...
Thanks Les.

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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Smith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:11 pm

I have never used notation software but I would like to start using one now.
How exactly do they work?

The first thing I would like to do is re-write my scale book with notes only and no fingerings. Maybe I would do that with some studies too.

I could do this the old-fashioned way: i.e., make a photocopy, white out the fingerings, then make a second photo copy.

I hear Sibelius is most professional. I would like to get something good and grow in to it, rather than waste time learning freeware only to grow out of it and have to start over with something else.

Thx.

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Schneider
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Schneider » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:30 pm

Hi Smith,
Smith wrote:[...] How exactly do they work? [...]
I'm 99% sure that you'll find demos on youtube... :roll:
Smith wrote:[...] I hear Sibelius is most professional. [...]
Well, humm, let say actually Sibellius and Finale are the most "famous" ones... and will cost you few hundreds bucks.

I think that, as a first step, you'll have to try MuseScore (http://musescore.org) which is a very close system but as a free software.

Now from my point of view, I will strongly recommand you to also try LilyPond. (http://lilypond.org/)
It has a totally different approach but offers you everything you'll ever dream of.
Some people would say that it's tough. It's hard work. But, as a former Finale user I can tell you it's simply the best.
If you want to try, it will take you less than 30 sec. :
1) go here : http://lilybin.com/
2) copy/past this code on the left side page : \relative c' { c d e f g a b c }
3) clic on "prewiew"...

it is as simple as that.
The tutos for beginers are here : http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documenta ... index.html
Have fun !

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bergmann
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by bergmann » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:37 pm

I hear Sibelius is most professional. I would like to get something good and grow in to it, rather than waste time learning freeware only to grow out of it and have to start over with something else.
Sibelius is a great program (And so are Finale and several other notation programmes). As long as you only want to put your scales into notes without any fingering, you can use the freeware programme MuseScore. It can save your work in the format musicXML, which can be read by most serious scorewriting programmes like Sibelius and Finale. It is not waste of your time to start spending some time with the freeware programme MuseScore, because the basics you need to write scales as notes is very much the same in all scorewriting programmes, and if you later find out that you will invest in those very expensive programmes like Sibelius or Finale, your work in MuseScore can easily be transformed to those programmes.

Some time ago I did some comparing of different programmes - with focus on Sibelius and Finale. You can read my investigation and conclusions here: http://www.bergmannedition.com/category ... -programs/

Choice of programme are for some people a religious question - but it shouldn't be. Finale and Sibelius can both make beautiful scores for the classic guitar, but they work very different, and which is best for you can only be decided by trying and making your own decisions.

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pogmoor
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by pogmoor » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:51 pm

Smith wrote:I hear Sibelius is most professional. I would like to get something good and grow in to it, rather than waste time learning freeware only to grow out of it and have to start over with something else.
Quoting from earlier in the thread:
Les Backshall wrote:Two years ago I started using Musescore and it is superior in every way - very similar to Sibelius in its features.
I can't see any reason for someone coming new to notation software at this point not using Musescore. It is Open Source software - a subtly different concept from Freeware in that it is full featured software developed non-commercially. Sibelius and Finale are programs that will allow you to score a symphony or a film score and are, to some extent, overkill for guitar scores. They are also very expensive and it's worth considering whether you are going to get value for your money from such a purchase. Musescore will allow you to do all you want in notating guitar music - and so would Lilypond, the software Schneider mentions above, though this has the drawback that it does not have a graphical user interface.

I have used Sibelius for several years, as arranging is a major hobby for me and I use its capacity for writing lute tablature (something Musescore does not do) as well as notation; but if I was starting now I would use Musescore for notation and a separate program for lute tablature.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

Smith
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Smith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:54 pm

Thank you Bergman, that is extremely helpful. I will follow your suggestions.
It makes sense that the basic skills learned in one will transport to another.
It can seem to be a daunting task for an older person like me to embrace even a few of these amazing technologies.
I got my home recording started and I now find I need notation software.

The main quality I find most needed is tenacity and a talent for persistence!

On the one hand, many of us intrepid musicians would be lost without the support this forum provides, yet at the same time, it is the forums and the technology that created them that is driving everything these days.

Smith
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Smith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:08 pm

Thank you, Pogmoor - looks like my first stop is Musescore. I appreciate that someone made the distinction between "freeware" and "open source". I don't know why a serious person would fool around with a "cracked" version of a program. Why not simply purchase what you need and enjoy the benefits?

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Les Backshall
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Les Backshall » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:28 pm

pogmoor wrote:... Sibelius and Finale are programs that will allow you to score a symphony or a film score...
Here's a snippet of a well known film score in Musescore, with transposing instruments etc...
ouatitw-01.JPG
Les
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Schneider
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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Schneider » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:38 pm

Les Backshall wrote:
pogmoor wrote:... Sibelius and Finale are programs that will allow you to score a symphony or a film score...
Here's a snippet of a well known film score in Musescore, with transposing instruments etc...

[...]
Good point Les :wink:

Here's some others made with LilyPond : http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/index.php/2012/02/29/32
for ex. this one : http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/index.php/2006/05/07/4

:bye:

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Re: notation software -which to use

Post by Smith » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:52 pm

You guys are awesome! I played the flute part just now, hoping I would guess the work, but I didn't get it.

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