Score writing software for guitar

Theory and practice of composition and arranging for classical guitar, discussion of works in progress, etc.
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Theory and practice of composition and arranging for classical guitar, discussion of works in progress, etc.

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AsturiasFan

Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by AsturiasFan » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:21 am

DanielMcPherson wrote: Edit: On the other hand, MuseScore does like to crash a lot. Does that happen to anyone else?
Yes! Every time I tried to modify a measure, MuseScore would crash. I finally had to delete the measure and rewrite it from scratch. This means the MuseScore encoding or translation has some bugs.

flameproof

Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by flameproof » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:44 am

AsturiasFan wrote:
DanielMcPherson wrote: Edit: On the other hand, MuseScore does like to crash a lot. Does that happen to anyone else?
Yes! Every time I tried to modify a measure, MuseScore would crash. I finally had to delete the measure and rewrite it from scratch. This means the MuseScore encoding or translation has some bugs.
That's happened to me also -- it is indeed enormously frustrating, I've even had it repeatedly crash when I tried to delete what appeared to be an empty measure. Seems to me that MuseScore doesn't like certain things:

Triplets: inputting, editing and deleting triplets has a high rate of failure, I do a lot of saves when working with triplet figures, and try to get it right first time.

Differing time-signatures with Copy and Paste: MuseScore will have a hissy fit if one isn't careful to copy-from and paste-to identical time-signatures. It appears that once it has messed-up a bar in this way, the simplest work around is to forget what you did and re-open the last saved version.

Ties: Whoever implemented them had drunk too much coffee that day, best to enter them last of all -- arrange the staves so they don't cross between them.

However, I am getting used to its idiosyncracies, which have less and less impact on the process of creating scores. I also trust that these issues will be dealt with in future releases.

By the way, you could do your userly duty and report the bugs you come across on their website -- of course that doesn't help you today (though workarounds might be suggested).

ricarva
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by ricarva » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:47 am

I've been using Finale to write for Classical Guitar and it fulfills my needs until now.
As for Electric Guitar, I always use GuitarPro.

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andi33x
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by andi33x » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:25 pm

Hi all,
I tried to use Finale Notepad 2009 and MuseScore. I think the situation is -simply said- desolate if you have "non standard" tasks. :(

I had the problem to change the measure which was wrong after importing a midi file. Additionally and pretty bad, the result was written in bass clef. Then I had to create from this a duo score with different keys for guitar and b-clarinet so that you can play the guitar part e.g. as A major but with the Capo at fret No. 1 and the clarinet part in C major which fits then to the guitar key (to explain that: The sounds which come out of a b-clarinet are not the real notes but one tone lower).

These tasks could not be carried out with Finale or MuseScore. Both are simply too fixed to standard operations and I was simply lost with them. Lilypond was the only program which helped me and worked fine with excellent output. It does not have these "we will force the silly user since he is silly and we are better"-functions which do not really help anyone as long as they are not suppressible. On the other side there is no GUI for Lilypond but MuseScore and Finale helped me at least to get a first Lilypond file to work with.

So my favorite is Lilypond. The others can be used as helpers.

CU Andreas
There is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a guitar - maybe aside from that of two guitars (Frederic Chopin)

flameproof

Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by flameproof » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:05 pm

andi33x wrote:I had the problem to change the measure which was wrong after importing a midi file.
MuseScore can sometimes get hung up with strange hidden-from-the-user events in a bar -- often it is faster to delete the whole bar and start it over.
andi33x wrote:Additionally and pretty bad, the result was written in bass clef.

I'm surprised that's a problem, just frop the clef you require at bar one, right?
andi33x wrote:It does not have these "we will force the silly user since he is silly and we are better"-functions which do not really help anyone as long as they are not suppressible.
I couldn't agree more, MuseScore isn't the worst offender in this respect, but there are times when I've wanted to throttle it saying "How do you know what I want, you..., you.., you binary file!"

MuseScore is less than perfect, and at times buggy, but I've used it for a while now and can promise you that its idiosyncrasies have less and less impact the more I use it.

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Paul
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by Paul » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:56 am

flameproof wrote:
andi33x wrote:It does not have these "we will force the silly user since he is silly and we are better"-functions which do not really help anyone as long as they are not suppressible.
I couldn't agree more, MuseScore isn't the worst offender in this respect, but there are times when I've wanted to throttle it saying "How do you know what I want, you..., you.., you binary file!"
Braeburn software in the UK, with their Music Publisher, tried to create a program which doesn't tell you what to do. I tried the demo a number of years ago, but since I'd been using Finale notepad and I was trying to save up for the full Finale I didn't get too far. It may be an option if someone wants to try it.

Now I've that used LilyPond a little bit I quite like it. It's helped to get to grips with the names of the notes on the ledger lines which I was always too lazy to remember. If you aren't all that familiar with notation and you want to quickly sketch up a melody you've thought of, it might not be the best for you. I like the idea of having LilyPond and and something else like MuseScore.

I wonder if Finale's sales have been affected since they made the Notepad non-free.

Paul

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andi33x
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by andi33x » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:43 pm

flameproof wrote:
andi33x wrote:Additionally and pretty bad, the result was written in bass clef.

I'm surprised that's a problem, just frop the clef you require at bar one, right?
You are right. This was first a problem in Final Notepad. But it can be easily solved there also by dragging into a new document.
The big problem was indeed changing the measure!

Greetings Andreas
There is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a guitar - maybe aside from that of two guitars (Frederic Chopin)

eduary

Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by eduary » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:22 pm

Does any body here have any experience with the Notion 3 software?

For example, can it open old Finale files? And of course - is it as easy to use as their blurb wants us to think it is? Does it do all that we need as guitarists?

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pogmoor
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by pogmoor » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:45 pm

Notion 3 can open Music XML files, which I think recent versions of Finale can export. It looks a good package but, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, it has the drawback for guitar writing and arranging that you can only use two voices per stave. I find it's important to have the option of at least three voices and I sometimes use all four in my arrangements (which both Sibelius and Finale can handle).
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

eduary

Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by eduary » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:57 pm

Yes, at least 3 voices are necessary for writing seriously for the guitar. Thank you - you just saved me the time spent in needlessly learning a new piece of software. It seems that I will need to stick with Finale.

Kris

Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by Kris » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:17 pm

I've not actually tested Notion 3, but I was curious enough to download the manual after Eric mentioned the two voice limitation as I thought it a bit odd. Here's an excerpt from the manual page 8.15:
The default mode of note entry is single-voice mode: all notes on each staff pertain to a single instrument. In
multi-voice mode, up to four parts can be notated on the same staff: as many as eight in a grand staff. If you
want, you can assign each to a different instrument (see Short Score Staff, next topic).

<snip>

Having three or four voices on a staff is, in one sense, an elaboration of the multi-voice entry feature (see
previous topic). However, in a broader sense you are saving such significant space as you conveniently view
notation for up to four parts simultaneously on the same notation staff that we give this feature the name of
Short Score Staff.
It’s up to you if you want all voices to share the same instrument sound, or if you want to assign different
instruments to different voices – which means you can assign up to eight different instruments on a grand
staff!

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Les Backshall
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by Les Backshall » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:58 pm

DanielMcPherson wrote:...On the other hand, MuseScore does like to crash a lot. Does that happen to anyone else?
I can't even open the programme. I use a Samson USB mic, and MuseScore objects to the asio driver. Anyone know a way around this one?

Les
Lester Backshall, Guitar Maker - Aylesbury UK

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pogmoor
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by pogmoor » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:33 pm

Kris wrote:I've not actually tested Notion 3, but I was curious enough to download the manual after Eric mentioned the two voice limitation as I thought it a bit odd. Here's an excerpt from the manual page 8.15:
The default mode of note entry is single-voice mode: all notes on each staff pertain to a single instrument. In
multi-voice mode, up to four parts can be notated on the same staff: as many as eight in a grand staff. If you
want, you can assign each to a different instrument (see Short Score Staff, next topic).

<snip>

Having three or four voices on a staff is, in one sense, an elaboration of the multi-voice entry feature (see
previous topic). However, in a broader sense you are saving such significant space as you conveniently view
notation for up to four parts simultaneously on the same notation staff that we give this feature the name of
Short Score Staff.
It’s up to you if you want all voices to share the same instrument sound, or if you want to assign different
instruments to different voices – which means you can assign up to eight different instruments on a grand
staff!
Yes, now I look again, the feature list does include 4 voices per staff. That is really strange because I did download an evaluation copy of Notion 3 and have a quick look at it - and I'm absolutely sure I came across a reference to 2 voices per staff. However I obviously did make an error and I apologise for that. Bearing that in mind I think Notion 3 looks a very attractive package - and if you want to 'crossgrade' from a recent version of Finale or Sibelius you can get it for $99 rather than the full price of $249.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

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wingarratta
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Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by wingarratta » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:39 pm

Kris wrote:I've not actually tested Notion 3, but I was curious enough to download the manual after Eric mentioned the two voice limitation as I thought it a bit odd. Here's an excerpt from the manual page 8.15:
The default mode of note entry is single-voice mode: all notes on each staff pertain to a single instrument. In
multi-voice mode, up to four parts can be notated on the same staff: as many as eight in a grand staff. If you
want, you can assign each to a different instrument (see Short Score Staff, next topic).

<snip>

Having three or four voices on a staff is, in one sense, an elaboration of the multi-voice entry feature (see
previous topic). However, in a broader sense you are saving such significant space as you conveniently view
notation for up to four parts simultaneously on the same notation staff that we give this feature the name of
Short Score Staff.
It’s up to you if you want all voices to share the same instrument sound, or if you want to assign different
instruments to different voices – which means you can assign up to eight different instruments on a grand
staff!
Thanks for this, I've been wondering about the notation aspect of Notion 3 since most of the (generally glowing) reports I've seen are about how easy it is to compose with and how great it sounds, but very little about the notes look on the page. Just had a quick look at the manual. On page 8.8 it says:
NOTION3 supports chords from simple to complex for any instrument and can be used in multi-voice parts.
...and a four-note chord is given as an example.

I suppose this means that more than one "voice" can have a chord in it... (?)
"When I meet people who are passionate about the guitar to the exclusion of every other kind of music, it irritates me profoundly" - J. Bream

Rod

Re: Score writing software for guitar

Post by Rod » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:48 pm

Les Backshall wrote:
DanielMcPherson wrote:...On the other hand, MuseScore does like to crash a lot. Does that happen to anyone else?
I can't even open the programme. I use a Samson USB mic, and MuseScore objects to the asio driver. Anyone know a way around this one?

Les
I had the same problem and found that It works OK if I have the Samson USB mic plugged in when using MuseScore in XP.

Happy Christmas to one and all.

Rod

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