All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

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sxedio
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All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by sxedio » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:00 pm

Parent company Avid got rid of the whole british office that originally developed and still maintains Sibelius. The long term future of that software is unclear. For more info here www.sibeliususers.org
(Gr) (En) (very little Fr)

Brynmor
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Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Brynmor » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:16 pm

This sounds like quite a serious development. Even if Sibelius survives, the whole nature of the software could change as a result of using a completely new team. I urge all of you who use Sibelius to make your voice heard in the appropriate quarters, unless you are prepared to (re)learn Finale!

AussieGuitarist

Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by AussieGuitarist » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:20 am

This is just disgusting. Complete disregard for their responsibilities, this is another example of corporate big-wigs and managers making reckless cuts to areas they have no understanding of - usually to compensate for their own shortcomings. Of course we never see these guys slashing their own salaries to make their company more financially viable.

This is not okay.

Nick Payne
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Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Nick Payne » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:53 am

Brynmor wrote:Even if Sibelius survives, the whole nature of the software could change as a result of using a completely new team.
I suspect there won't be any new team of programmers. The parent company will milk what they can from the existing version by continuing to flog it, while minimising their costs by not doing any further development.

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Vlad Kosulin
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Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Vlad Kosulin » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:47 am

We do not know the financials behind Sibelius. If it sells well, Avid would sold it to some private equity folks if they can not keep it's development in house. Most likely, Sibelius is going the dead row. There is a chance though the current developers find investors for buyout.
Avid 'core' product line-up was a mess for years, I am not surprised they go underwater.
Regards,
Vlad
(still testing various strings with 2006 Sebastian Stenzel and Olinda OC-300)

Joseph Ehrenpreis

Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Joseph Ehrenpreis » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:32 pm

I have heard that somewhere on the internet, the original developers (or some of them atleast) and still trying to keep the program alive.

Oliver Newman

Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Oliver Newman » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:16 am

A friend of mine was recently in a meeting with the guys involved, and he put this on Facebook...

"I have some news about Sibelius and New Sibelius that you might find interesting. I was in a meeting yesterday that first had Daniel Spreadbury (ex sibelius now steinberg) and then Bobby Lombardi (ex pro tools now taken over sibelius within avid).

First of all Daniel has confirmed he and the rest of the ex sibelius team are working on a new notation software within steinberg. They have been given no limits for what they are expected to do (for example build off cubase notation software) and so are building a completely new piece of software from scratch. Its only week 6 of the development but in his words 'any thing is possible' and he's looking for comments about what users want in the software. So if you have anything that you really want a new piece of notation software to do let me know and I can pass on the details.
One of the other things he said that was quite interesting was 'if sibelius was to a type writer, I want the new programme to be a word processor'. What he meant by that was sibelius was built on the premise that you would be copying already written music and so had no need to add a semi-quaver into the 3rd beat of bar 203 of 500. Obviously that changed through use but because of the way it was built from the start they couldn't change it. So the word processor style means that you can add that semi-quaver in without messing stuff up. They are also looking to build app support for it so maybe a cut down programme on ipad that sync to the desktop or wireless syncing to ipad for players to play off running off a master score that can be edited during rehearsals and seen on all screens.

As for Bobbie he seemed to be confident (behind a pile of corporate speak that was missing from Daniel) that sibelius will continue and will develop. One of the things I asked him about was the new ribbon at the top on 7 and his reply was that 'we are looking into ways to change or remove it for users if they want'. That plus 'legacy users are not in the majority of users of sibelius 7' was quite telling that their attempt to catch a wider user base and education market had worked but at the expense of people who have used sibelius for years. They admitted that scorch had been under developed but are now planning to build it into the max runtime of sibelius. For those of you who dont know runtime it means that scorch will be a free programme that can view and playback sibelius files but not edit."

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pogmoor
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Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by pogmoor » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:41 am

As a long-time Sibelius user I have provided a certain amount of input on the Sibelius forum regarding functionality over the years. Because of my particular interests (in early music) I was keen to see Sibelius develop its potential to handle early music notations (especially lute tablature) and to a fair extent this functionality was developed (as indeed it was in Finale too). However Sibelius has never been able to write lute tablature without the need to include certain 'fudges' to get the notation right. The best example of this is its inability to natively represent the lower courses of lutes with more than 6 courses, but there are other examples too.

Anyone writing a totally new music programme therefore might want to look at the potential for including early music notations (and other non-standard notations). There are two specialist early music notation softwares that can write lute tablature well (and will also do staff notation, but badly); these are Fronimo and Django, both written by single individuals with early music backgrounds. A good, cross platform, professional music software that included the functionality found in Fronimo and Django would bring on board the early music fraternity, which is now quite large, and make the exchange of early music and its arrangement in staff notation more straightforward. This would be even more so if the software was bundled with a scanning program that could recognise tablature (i.e. both modern guitar tablature and lute tablature). It almost goes without saying, too, that the functionality should include Music XML import and export. As for the 'word processor' analogy, I wholly agree with this - it's something that would make arranging considerably easier.

If you can pass these views on, please do :)
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

Rincewind

Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Rincewind » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:58 pm

I'd like to see decent support for fingering on a guitar score. The Sibelius support for this is awful. Presumably there is a forum for folk to provide feedback to the Steinberg crew?

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pogmoor
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Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by pogmoor » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:22 pm

Yes, fingering could be easier, though the 'Add Fingering to Notes' plug-in in Sibelius 7 is a considerable step forward. However I do find adding string numbers and position/barre indicators tedious.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

Oliver Newman

Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Oliver Newman » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:26 pm

For suggestions and the like, here is the new head of Sibelius's (Daniel Speadbury) e-mail: d.spreadbury@steinberg.de

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pogmoor
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Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by pogmoor » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:50 am

Here's a new blog from Daniel Spreadbury about the notation program he's developing at Steinberg: http://blog.steinberg.net/2013/02/welcome/
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

JohnPierce

Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by JohnPierce » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:02 am

I certainly wish them well. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes before beta-level code is available - three years minus/plus six months is my guess, and at least another six months before a 1.0 release.

Nick Payne
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Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by Nick Payne » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:55 pm

jwp wrote:I certainly wish them well. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes before beta-level code is available - three years minus/plus six months is my guess, and at least another six months before a 1.0 release.
Depends on the programmers. On starting the project from scratch, Linus Torvalds had the initial useable version of Git (a distributed version control system) available about a year after starting it. But then you're talking about the guy who developed Linux, so a rather better than average programmer.

JohnPierce

Re: All Sibelius developers lose their jobs

Post by JohnPierce » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:58 pm

Nick Payne wrote: Depends on the programmers. On starting the project from scratch, Linus Torvalds had the initial useable version of Git (a distributed version control system) available about a year after starting it. But then you're talking about the guy who developed Linux, so a rather better than average programmer.
Yeah, and Monte Widenius and David Axmark turned out the first version of MySQL in about a year, and I once wrote 30K lines of C in something less than that and it worked as it was supposed to (and several years later had to redo it - 9K lines of Tcl/Tk/Expect in less than three months, which was very annoying). You can do that when you're working essentially alone and you're not trying to produce a commercial product with a full formal design process, design documentation, code reviews, a test suite, regression testing, user documentation, etc.

They've got a dozen or so people to coordinate, and at a guess something like 150K lines of original code to write, depending somewhat on the language, but probably in C++. Given who they're working for and that it's supposed to be a real product, they're going to go through the full formal process. They better, anyway.

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