Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

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Massimo Piazza
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Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Massimo Piazza » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:30 am


Alain Bauer
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Alain Bauer » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:47 pm

Nice rendition, may I suggest a little more flexibilté with the tempo, the 3-beat rhythm is a difficult rhythm without breaths here and there.
Thank you for sharing !

Rognvald
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Rognvald » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:40 pm

No problem for me with the tempo. This is not a piece that requires significant breathing/rubato but rather a consistent tempo to emphasize the light, melodic nature of the piece. Charming piece. Nicely played. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

dan5001
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by dan5001 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:19 pm

Great! I try to play this and it's pretty tough. You make it sound nice n easy

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Duang Turongratanachai
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Duang Turongratanachai » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:20 pm

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:
Thanks for sharing.
Duang :casque:

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by GuitarsWeB » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:07 am

The original score, out of South America, had a different rhythm... NOT two 1/16th notes, but like the sample here. Remember, for many years this piece was miss-labeled as a Villa Lobos Charro No.2. You hear people play it both ways. Personally, I think the original is more musical.
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:14 pm

GuitarsWeB wrote:The original score, out of South America, had a different rhythm... NOT two 1/16th notes, but like the sample here.
Hi GuitarsWeB,

It's not quite as straigtforward as that - both rhythms come out of South America (Brazil to be more precise) and are associated with Sons de Carrilhões.

I first came across the tune accompanied by the same figure as that in your sample i.e.
lundu.png
This is in fact characteristic of the lundu whereas Pernambuco's ditty is a maxixe. No lesser Brazilian authorities than Dilermando Reis and Carlos Barbosa-Lima have presented it thus:
reis.png
Lima.png
Of course there has always been a certain degree of cross-fertilisation and improvisation - to all intents and purposes this is folk music and not set in stone. Not only that but Guimarães was musically illiterate therefore every written version is to some extent an arrangement.

When listening to real chorões perform Sons de Carrilhões it is quite common to hear both these rhythmic cells (and more) simultaneously; the way an arranger distills this conglomerate in order to form a playable version for a solo instrument is quite personal, dependent on each individual's sensibilities and engagement with the music.
GuitarsWeB wrote:Personally, I think the original is more musical.
My point is that both might be considered original and/or authentic.

Having said that - Carlos Barbosa-Lima has stated outright that the ubiquitous syncopated pattern is just plain wrong.

If called upon to play Sons de Carrilhões these days I spontaneously switch between various accompaniment patterns and improvised insertions according to how I feel the music is proceeding - I rarely go for "straight". I will also perform it rather more slowly on occasion - Carlos (Barbos-L) convinced me that the melody was intended as a serenade - lyrical and open to interweaving counterpoint. For what it's worth Reis recorded it at just under 60 bpm.

Caveat - although I have, on occasion, been taught by and worked with Brazilian musicians I am by no means an expert on Brazilian style ... perhaps Luis Br. will chime in with more pertinent comment?
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Last edited by Mark Clifton-Gaultier on Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by GuitarsWeB » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:36 pm

Great post Mark...I got my arrangement from Richard Stover in 1968, he got it from Howard Heitmeyer. Howard never said how the piece got miss labeled as Villa Lobos Charro No.2. I think that happened in the 1950’s. It took the Internet Age to finally get it corrected. Back in 1992, I played it at a dinner party for the late Aaron Shearer. Aaron though it was by Villa Lobos. You’re right...it needs to be slower. Actually, guitarist tend to play many pieces too fast...even Bach
BTW...I have a copy of the handwritten arrangement by Barbosa.He has a great script.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:02 pm

GuitarsWeB wrote:I got my arrangement from Richard Stover in 1968, he got it from Howard Heitmeyer ...
Ha - mine came from Bill Clinton ... if memory serves me he knew Stover - I'll bet it was being passed on all over the place.
EDIT: That's GEORGE Clinton.
GuitarsWeB wrote:I have a copy of the handwritten arrangement by Barbosa.
Have you played it? It's no mean feat to pull that off.

Massimo - sincere apologies for the detour from your post - hopefully you find some of the conversation interesting and that it doesn't detract from your fine and gentle performance.
Last edited by Mark Clifton-Gaultier on Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by GuitarsWeB » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:03 pm

Massimo - sincere apologies for the detour from your post - hopefully you find some of the conversation interesting and that it doesn't detract from your fine and gentle performance.
I agree Massimo...nice playing. The piece has such an interesting background and all, that’s why I brought up the different rhythm.

dguedes
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by dguedes » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:12 pm

By the way, as a brazillian, I feel like this piece describes so much how things looked in Brazil back in the day. Really nice to see people from all around the world also enjoying it. Great job! :D

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by GuitarsWeB » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:16 pm

GuitarsWeB wrote:
I got my arrangement from Richard Stover in 1968, he got it from Howard Heitmeyer ...
Ha - mine came from Bill Clinton ... if memory serves me he knew Stover - I'll bet it was being passed on all over the place.
Ha! I always thought Sweet Willy played the saxophone.

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Rick Beauregard » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:25 pm

Great discussion. I learned this piece a few years ago as a Delcamp lesson final. I played it with syncopation not the “cha cha cha” version of Delcamp. I passed but just barely.

I agree with the thoughts about this folk music form and like the idea of combining the figures in a sort of improvisational way. I think Yamandu Costa does it both ways. Here’s a nice one:

https://youtu.be/orRdmy58W7k
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:48 pm

GuitarsWeB wrote:Ha! I always thought Sweet Willy played the saxophone.
Doh - some weird kind of Freudian slip at the keyboard - I meant GEORGE Clinton, the one time editor of Guitar International.

I'll edit the original post.

Smith
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Re: Pernambuco, João - Sons de Carrilhoes - Video

Post by Smith » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:43 pm

Really enjoyed hearing you play this lovely gem. Following along the score was a treat as well. Also fun was reading the other posts here. I’m liking the “People play way too fast a lot of times” trend.

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