Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Beni
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Beni » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:56 pm

Yeah, you’re right. The world may come to an end.

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Julian Ward
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Julian Ward » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:11 pm

I don't think I would bother. If you are categorising yourself as a beginner I would save your money. Ramirez guitars are not beginner friendly and don't respond well to an under developed technique. I am generalising a bit of course, I don't know that model. I can tell you that the student line of Burguet models (estudio or 3m) are absolutely brilliant for the money. They are also made of solid rosemary .. (joke)... They are very playable and have a lovely Spanish flavour to their sound.
Classical guitar teacher

Sankie
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Sankie » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:32 am

Ramirez guitar is quite expensive but I’m very satisfy with their entry model for student! Very nice!
Ramirez 4ne 2016
Andrea Tacchi Coclea Tuchea 2015
Ramirez 1a 2018
Jean Noel Rohe 2014

Beni
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Beni » Sun May 05, 2019 7:55 am

Beni wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:38 am
Both guitars are solid woods
Due to lower action Burguet is very easy in terms of playability. If you have one get savarez mr10 medium tension. Great guitar

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pogmoor
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by pogmoor » Sun May 05, 2019 11:01 am

Julian Ward wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:11 pm
I don't think I would bother. If you are categorising yourself as a beginner I would save your money. Ramirez guitars are not beginner friendly and don't respond well to an under developed technique. I am generalising a bit of course, I don't know that model....
I haven't played any Ramirez guitars other than my Guitarra Del Tiempo so I don't know how true your generalisation is. But I find the Guitarra Del Tiempo easy to play and I think it would be ok for an inexperienced player.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

Nikos_Greek
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Nikos_Greek » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:01 pm

I tried a 2018 del Tiempo recently, a spruce top one. It was a very good guitar. Apart from the characteristic Ramirez sound, I found playability very good, voice separation very good for the price tag, very good balance between trembles and basses, good sustain and clarity, very good and clear high register (above 12th fret). In short a very competent guitar for a serious player, would definitely like to have it if I didn't have enough guitars. Forgot to say that in terms of construction/materials it looked to me better than the 130 anios that I had tried in the same shop a year ago.

gjj
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by gjj » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:38 pm

Nikos_Greek wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:01 pm
I tried a 2018 del Tiempo recently, a spruce top one. It was a very good guitar. Apart from the characteristic Ramirez sound, I found playability very good, voice separation very good for the price tag, very good balance between trembles and basses, good sustain and clarity, very good and clear high register (above 12th fret). In short a very competent guitar for a serious player, would definitely like to have it if I didn't have enough guitars. Forgot to say that in terms of construction/materials it looked to me better than the 130 anios that I had tried in the same shop a year ago.
I have always wanted one of these. Perhaps one day. I am awaiting the rosemary top version. I hear the tremble response is exquisite! :lol: :P

Philip
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Philip » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:06 am

Other things being equal (strings, player, repertoire etc.) how would you all describe the 'characteristic Ramirez sound' please? It seems that Ramirez instruments divide opinion quite strongly and I'm interested as to why. My own guitar is a 2007 Ramirez SP and it's all I really know other than from recordings, which have many issues when it come to judging sound quality. Its air resonance frequency is A, which I gather means that it will be brighter than is fashionable these days - is that what is meant?
Elementary
Ramirez SP 2007; Tobias Braun (Hauser) 2019

dlfowler
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by dlfowler » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:38 pm

Philip wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:06 am
Other things being equal (strings, player, repertoire etc.) how would you all describe the 'characteristic Ramirez sound' please? It seems that Ramirez instruments divide opinion quite strongly and I'm interested as to why. My own guitar is a 2007 Ramirez SP and it's all I really know other than from recordings, which have many issues when it come to judging sound quality. Its air resonance frequency is A, which I gather means that it will be brighter than is fashionable these days - is that what is meant?
For me I think of the sound that Christopher Parkening got on his "In The Spanish Style" recording as a desirable, ideal Ramirez sound. It has strong basses, warmth and not too much high-end though the trebles can still be heard. To be honest I don't know if this is truly "characteristic" of Ramirez or not. It's also hard to know how much the recording process changed the sound we hear from the actual live guitar sound (e.g. the mics used, their placement, equalization and/or compression applied, etc.). But I imagine the tone on this recording must come from the guitar in large part because I think they tend to avoid doing too much processing on classical recordings. Of course Christopher Parkening's technique and skill is a big factor.
----
Guitar: Cordoba C12 Cedar, Playing level: RCM Grade 9

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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Philip » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:57 pm

Many thanks dlfowler. That's my own overall impression of my Ramirez's sound, although my playing skills are not yet sufficiently developed to know whether any limitations are as a result of the instrument/strings anyway; however, a professional guitarist and a well-respected dealer have been highly critical of the sound, with the latter writing 'I am not a great fan of Ramirez - and typically, they are too stiff and high-pitched, bright, nasal and metallic in the treble and lacking in bass depth. Awful actually, and the people that sell them don’t know what they are selling - it's just a label. Such guitars are far from inspiring - and if you can afford it, I would move on.' I'm meeting him this week for him to try to convince me with four luthier-built instruments from the same sort of price range. It will be interesting to hear the differences.
Elementary
Ramirez SP 2007; Tobias Braun (Hauser) 2019

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pogmoor
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by pogmoor » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:18 pm

Philip wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:57 pm
'I am not a great fan of Ramirez - and typically, they are too stiff and high-pitched, bright, nasal and metallic in the treble and lacking in bass depth...'
That seems to be the opposite of what dlfowler is saying. My Guitarra Del Tiempo has the characteristics that he describes:
dlfowler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:38 pm
...It has strong basses, warmth and not too much high-end though the trebles can still be heard.
The basses are very good; the treble strings are less clear than those in my Les Backshall guitar; a sound that I would describe as 'veiled'. The Ramirez seems to me better with late Classical and Romantic era music, whereas I find the guitar Les made better for renaissance and baroque music.

For what it's worth I think the Guitarra Del Tiempo is a very good guitar for its price point; it is well finished, easy to play and has a sound that is overall well-balanced.
Eric from GuitarLoot
Renaissance and Baroque freak; classical guitars by Lester Backshall (2008), Ramirez (Guitarra del Tiempo 2017),
Yamaha (SLG 130NW silent classical guitar 2014).

Philip
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Philip » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:33 pm

That's helpful. Eric - thank you. Although a beginner on the guitar, I'm a professional pianist/organist with over four decades' experience and I've selected numerous pianos over the years for the various institutions with which I've worked, plus one of my own; *however* I'm less sure what I should be listening for in a guitar. Your point about different instruments working better for different styles of music is well-made, but I can't afford to buy several guitars, so need to find something that will work well across the range. I'm not going to rush into it and if I'm not convinced, I will walk away – or at least tell him to, because he's kindly coming to my home. The Ramirez is certainly much better than I am at present! Having a range of more knowledgable opinions is useful though.
Elementary
Ramirez SP 2007; Tobias Braun (Hauser) 2019

astro64
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by astro64 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:27 pm

Philip wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:06 am
Other things being equal (strings, player, repertoire etc.) how would you all describe the 'characteristic Ramirez sound' please? It seems that Ramirez instruments divide opinion quite strongly and I'm interested as to why. My own guitar is a 2007 Ramirez SP and it's all I really know other than from recordings, which have many issues when it come to judging sound quality. Its air resonance frequency is A, which I gather means that it will be brighter than is fashionable these days - is that what is meant?
Ramirez guitars are interesting in that they tend to have high air mode, as you note, yet are known as having "that Spanish bass sound" as some would describe it. The high air mode tends to go along with a high main top mode and it gives the guitars a lot of presence in the mid range. But it can lead to "boxiness", a closed-in sound and not a very lush or rich sound compared to some other guitars. Segovia, Parkening, Yamashita etc all get or got great sound from their Ramirez guitars. But there are also the anecdotes that they tended to try out many guitars to find the one they liked. From at least one of the Ramirez instruments sold by GSI that was owned by Segovia, a 1969 Ramirez that was played by many visiting players to GSI and that you can find on Youtube, my impression is that it does not have a boxy sound and that it is lower in air mode. FWIW.

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rinneby
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by rinneby » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:00 pm

astro64 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:27 pm
From at least one of the Ramirez instruments sold by GSI that was owned by Segovia, a 1969 Ramirez that was played by many visiting players to GSI and that you can find on Youtube, my impression is that it does not have a boxy sound and that it is lower in air mode. FWIW.
This is correct, or at least this is my observation as well. I owned a 1963 once and it was not boxy sounding at all, compared to some late 70s and 80s that I've tried. However, I forgot to check the air resonance, around G or G# is my guess.

/J
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
2016 - Pete Beer

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

Philosopherguy
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Re: Jose Ramirez Guitarra Del Tiempo

Post by Philosopherguy » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:00 pm

Philip wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:57 pm
Many thanks dlfowler. That's my own overall impression of my Ramirez's sound, although my playing skills are not yet sufficiently developed to know whether any limitations are as a result of the instrument/strings anyway; however, a professional guitarist and a well-respected dealer have been highly critical of the sound, with the latter writing 'I am not a great fan of Ramirez - and typically, they are too stiff and high-pitched, bright, nasal and metallic in the treble and lacking in bass depth. Awful actually, and the people that sell them don’t know what they are selling - it's just a label. Such guitars are far from inspiring - and if you can afford it, I would move on.' I'm meeting him this week for him to try to convince me with four luthier-built instruments from the same sort of price range. It will be interesting to hear the differences.
You will find that many people have opinions on Ramirez guitars. Many love their sound, some absolutely hate it. But, I would guess that Ramirez is likely the most recorded brand of guitar on commercial recordings. So, take opinions with a grain of salt and decide for yourself what you like. Personally, I love the sound of a Ramirez. They have that classic sound that so many have loved over the years through most of the big name players.

There would be no way for Ramirez to be so popular through the years if they were really as bad as some of these folks make them out to be. Even a miracle of advertising could not account for the popularity of Ramirez if they were that bad. It just would not make sense. Also, if the sound was so bad, why did so many makers copy Ramirez guitars through the years? Ridiculous statements from that dealer. I don't trust anyone who is so opinionated that they are giving a valid argument that is not driven by bias. Trashing other brands/makers only shows that someone has a limited perspective.

However, I admit that the sound of a Ramirez isn't what everyone is looking for; in the same way as a double top isn't what everyone likes or that a certain style of bracing isn't what everyone likes. Ramirez do have their own timbre and response. This is not bad or good, just different than some others. There are many makers/brands out there to buy. You just have to find the one you love.

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

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