Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

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dta721
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by dta721 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:14 pm

I don't know if this Kohno No 8 is still available should you consider it as a good candidate under 2K Euros?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=124487

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MauricioMedeiros
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by MauricioMedeiros » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:36 pm

Jacek A. Rochacki wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:18 am
Perhaps it would make sense to take under consideration guitars by Otto Vovinkel in Amsterdam. I am under positive impression when thinking on his model 2a, it is constructed in cooperation with very good small workshop of Antonio Picado in Berga, Spain, the area of Barcelona.
https://ottovowinkel.com/model-2a-english/

Or maybe you would be lucky to find the PIcado guitar somewhere in your circles ? is is also possible to contact Picado via internet. There is a lot of information about Picado guitars at this Forum.

EDIT At the Vovinkel web pages in section contact there is information on availibity in different countries including an adress in Belgium.
Thanks for pointing it out to me, Jacek! I will do some research on his guitars when I get back home tonight. I will ask around if someone has a Picado available too.

The address on Belgium is not far from me, I will stop there this Saturday. They have other guitars which appear to be interesting too and were suggested by other members.

KR
Mauricio

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MauricioMedeiros
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by MauricioMedeiros » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:41 pm

Nikos_Greek wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:20 pm
As the OP mentioned, C 12 is lattice braced, it is difficult to compare it with other Cordoba models fan braced. You may like the loudness of a lattice braced guitar, but the tone might be not of your liking, in which case the purchase won't make any sense. 2000 Euros bring you a nice factory made guitar when bought new. But if you add some money you can get a second hand luthier made guitar which will be a great upgrade from what you have and will probably keep it for many years. For this you will need to have patience and be ready to undergo a few trips to try the instruments yourself. Since you live in Belgium and since there are some shops in your vicinity you may decide to go this way. Otherwise, reviews are pretty much worthless, you need to try the instrument yourself before buying. I have bought online and have not been disappointed, but if there is a next purchase I would like to try the instrument myself before buying.
Yeah, I am convinced by now that buying used is the best option, and I need indeed to go to the shops and do my best to try the instruments. I am not very confident in my ears to judge something in this price range, but at least I guess I will learn a bit in the process.

There were many suggestions that are worth looking into, I have some homework to do :D

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Guitar-ded
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by Guitar-ded » Sun May 05, 2019 11:05 pm

HI,

I'm a bit late to the question here, but if you haven't bought yet you should at least consider the Cadenza model made by Stephen Eden and sold via Kent Guitar Classics in the UK. Details can be seen here.
https://wwwDOTkentguitarclassics.com/cl ... enza-model
There is also a review on Youtube


This is a proper guitar but with less of the time consuming twiddles found on upper models but it has the sound you should probably be after.
Getting better bit by bit, day by day.

Kevin L Benbow
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by Kevin L Benbow » Mon May 06, 2019 2:07 am

I will try to play the C12 somewhere. There is a consensus that the elevated fingerboard on the C12 is not really elevated enough to be useful anyway. I am curious about the sound though. Did you notice any big difference in the tone, with the C12 being lattice braced? Or in the volume, comparing with the C10?

The elevated fingerboard being less than useful, and the tone more or less the same, there is apparently very little else to justify a quite big price increase.
[/quote]

Eh. . I have a different opinion. Love my C12. While the fingerboard is not as high as other makers', I notice a difference when I play my guitars with traditional cuts. My C12 is my workhorse. It goes to average gigs ( clubs, etc.). The Purnell goes with me when I am doing more than ambient music.
Purnell #93
Cordoba C12
Admira Virtuoso (c. 1999).

aivarsm78
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by aivarsm78 » Mon May 06, 2019 6:59 pm

Look at Amalio Burguet or Camps, they make great guitars!
Alhambra 4P
Amalio Burguet 2M

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Juan CAR
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by Juan CAR » Mon May 06, 2019 9:20 pm

I would consider too Alhambra.

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Mon May 06, 2019 10:52 pm

Alhambra guitar may be a very nice instrument, but I would rather check out the already mentioned: Otto Vowinkel and surely the Stephen Eden's Cadenza.
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.
Antonio Picado, model 62, 2018, Cedar/Madagascar Palosanto. Scale 640 mm. Doble Tapa.

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zupfgeiger
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by zupfgeiger » Tue May 07, 2019 12:50 pm

As just mentioned: Miles Roberts from kentguitarclassics sells the Cadenza model for 1800 Pound, it's a real luthier guitar, build by Stephen Eden, just with a little less ornamentation than his regular and more expensive model. Swedish guitarist Johannes Moeller sells a "Segovia model" for 2300 Euro on his website, build by a student of German master luthier Gerhard Oldiges. Both options might offer much better acoustic experiences than manufacture brands.
Last edited by zupfgeiger on Tue May 07, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fritz Ober, Torres/Hauser model, 2010, spruce/maple
Giovanni Tacchi, Bouchet model, spruce/BRAZ, 2018

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Tue May 07, 2019 12:52 pm

- I second what @zupfgeiger says above.
Antonio Picado, model 60, 2015, Cedar/IRW. Scale 640 mm.
Antonio Picado, model 62, 2018, Cedar/Madagascar Palosanto. Scale 640 mm. Doble Tapa.

wil weten
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by wil weten » Tue May 07, 2019 2:35 pm

es335 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:52 am

With just one positive review on the Cordoba C12 I wouldn’t feel equally comfortable to buy unseen but fortunately t h o m a n n has a comfortable 30 days return policy. So for a first shot you may go this way and see how impressed you will be with your 400€ Hofner as a reference. :wink:
Well, 30 days means in this case: the first two weeks you may return the instrument without it costing you any money. But when you live outside of Germany (and the OP does, as he lives in Belgium), then you would need to pay for the return costs for the rest of the 30 days.

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RenaissanceStrings
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by RenaissanceStrings » Tue May 07, 2019 7:38 pm

MauricioMedeiros wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:08 am
Hi all!

I am thinking for some time already on upgrading my guitar, but the more I research, the more I get overwhelmed.

I bought a few years ago from t h o m a n n a Hofner HZ23 - a really simple student model, but at that time it was a LOT better than what I had. But now I really feel I could get a lot more from a better guitar. I am just a hobbyist which needs to control my time on guitar due to previous injuries, so most of what I feel "lacking" could be just a matter of "get better at playing" - sometimes I find it really really hard to go from pp to ff for example, or the sound quality just don't keep up with what I am "listening" on my head. But still I think a better guitar would make me enjoy a lot more my time playing.

That said, boy, it is hard to choose a guitar. I see over and over ppl saying "go with your ears", but I don't think that will really work for me. I don't know of decent stores nearby, so probably will have to buy online. And to be honest all the online sound samples are more or less the same to me and my crap notebook speakers.

So I was looking at a lot of reviews, and trying to find some more consistent brands to minimize my risk. I would like to have a loud guitar with a decent tone, and which was not hard to play. I don't really get what are talking about when they say a guitar is "easy" or "hard" to play though. Is it just the action? I also would like to get a spruce guitar, but mostly because I never had one before, so it would be something different :)

I saw a very positive review of a cordoba C12, from "this is classical guitar". The guys says it pretty much keeps up with his 7k guitar unless you go to a concert hall (which I don't expect to do in the foreseeable future, if ever). But I also see ppl saying that chinese guitars are just bad, or inconsistent at the best.

I also read a lot of good things about the Guitarra del Tiempo from Ramirez. Looking for Ramirez I saw also a Estudio 3, which appears to be better, but cost 1k more than the C12. Does it sound 1k better? It is over my target by a fair margin, but as I will probably use it for 4 or 5 years before thinking on a new guitar it could be worth the stretch, if this can make indeed any difference. I would just need to wait a few more months to get the money, but it is not that bad. There is the Estudio 2 which is more or less the same price as the C12, but I couldn't find any review for it. Writing this makes me realize I am biased towards the C12 because of that youtube review... Which is probably not a very good place to be while trying to decide what to buy :D

I tried to look for used ones near me (I live in Belgium), but did not find anything interesting, and to buy used I would need to find a really trustworthy seller, as I don't think I can really judge a guitar in that range - again, currently I have a guitar under 400 euros :) Also online stores apparently have a money return policy (at least t h o m a n n has), which can be helpful if things go wrong.

So.... can anyone help me to decide what could be a decent guitar for me? Personal opinions, technical advice, words of encouragement... Anything is welcome :D My budget is ideally up to 2k euros (I am using the C12 as a reference, which costs a little under 1800 at t h o m a n n), but I could save a little more and go a bit higher if it is really justifiable.

KR
Mauricio Medeiros
I'm selling my "Torres", which is built by a master luthier and is probably a better buy than any factory built guitar. The details are here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127413

Regards,

Mohsin

Leo Apray
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by Leo Apray » Wed May 08, 2019 8:44 am

dta721 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:14 pm
I don't know if this Kohno No 8 is still available should you consider it as a good candidate under 2K Euros?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=124487
Thanks for mentioning it.
Yes, it's still available. Please feel free to contact me.

Tonit
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Re: Few questions on buying a guitar under 2000 euros

Post by Tonit » Wed May 08, 2019 11:14 am

Hi,
It also depends on what you would play.
It is also a good idea to limit your options by top (i.e. soundboard) materials as well as bracing patterns.
There is a significant difference between cedar and spruce tops that is well perceivable for anyone. I would compare the difference is as much as that of single coil strats and humbucker LPs, meaning, the two can be more distinguishable. And just like there are many kinds of single coils, there are some variants, like western red cedar, european cedar, sitka spruce, port orfeo spruce... the list goes on. However so, the difference between cedars and spruces is valid and well categorizable. You can roughly check out their different properties in wood database website.

Spruce top is the traditional material for many instruments such as piano and violins as well as guitar. I prefer spruce for flamenco. Flamenco guitars are mostly with spruce tops, and cedar top flamenco guitars are minorities.

Cedar top is a relatively new material, and characterized by strong bass and top end frequency. I personally prefer cedar for classical and brazillian bossa nova and pieces. For me the cedar is the classical sound.

IMPO cedar has better definition playing chords, whereas spruce has mellow and singing melody in higher register, that I think is well perceivable.

Neck material also matters, and I like traditional cedar. Maple necks mostly sound too hard for me, and mahogany necks are also hard but midrangy. But different neck materials may not be so perceivable as the tops.

Like many here are discussing, used guitars are the way to go for a set budget, but you should still keep the new guitars in your scope. I personally have shopped around many used, but never bought used classical guitars. It just turned out as such, where I always found great options from new guitars inventory, with drastically reduced prices. However, I have once own a used one that my parents bought for me and that was great.

You seem to be quite into Cordoba C12. The crucial info about Cordoba guitar is, they are surely made in Spain as they claim, in Raimundo factory, so simply you can get better Raimundos than Cordoba for the same budget if you are in Europe. And better yet, there are some more other brands from Raimundo factory: Antonio Sanchez Spanish line, Luis Romero, Salamanca, and so on.

Also, Alhambra factory has some other brands, like Almansa that is generally more inexpensive for the same quality guitars than Alhambra.

Furthermore, Paco Castillo is excellent, and the brand started when some Alhambra luthiers walked out as Alhambra was seeking Chinese production, against which they were opposed as they say.

Manuel Rodriguez guitars are mostly made in Asia somewhere, and I have no interest, but some of them sound quite good as I have tried, and have great price tags most of the time.

Other Spanish brands I could recommend include Picado and Camps which are both great as I tried. Especially, a Campus I tried was even better than a Conde with much higher price tag. So it can be said that, the reputation of a brand might tax you extra, and you may get better deals with less reputable brands, especially when you have a set budget.

These stories of brands are quite popular, so that you can casually talk at your music stores to verify.

I hope this helps you.

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