Traditional 630 Guitar maker

soltirefa
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by soltirefa » Mon May 20, 2019 3:41 am

nmshu1 wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 3:16 am
I know sometimes 650 is easier than 630 it depends on which repertoire you play...
I totally agree.

billchivers
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by billchivers » Mon May 20, 2019 6:54 am

When discussing scale length people (above and in other threads) often question how 5mm from nut to saddle can make a noticeable difference and others with experience say that it does, but no-one on either side of the discussion ever mentions the drop in string tension with shorter scale. Is this because string tension is not a factor? I am not suggesting one way or the other, I am asking the question and interested to hear opinions/experience.

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James Lister
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by James Lister » Mon May 20, 2019 12:28 pm

billchivers wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 6:54 am
When discussing scale length people (above and in other threads) often question how 5mm from nut to saddle can make a noticeable difference and others with experience say that it does, but no-one on either side of the discussion ever mentions the drop in string tension with shorter scale. Is this because string tension is not a factor? I am not suggesting one way or the other, I am asking the question and interested to hear opinions/experience.
It has been covered before - but yes, a shorter scale guitar will have lower tension if you use the same strings - many makers/players will fit higher tension strings to shorter scale guitars to compensate, but if you stick with normal tension it will help playability, but you'll lose a bit of volume, and the tone will change a little.

I'm currently making my 3rd 630mm scale guitar, with a slightly reduced body size, and I really like them. I'll probably make one for myself when I get the time.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by GuitarsWeB » Mon May 20, 2019 1:12 pm

The shorter scale will take less tension to attain A-440 than a longer scale, but the strings will feel stiffer than a longer scale.

soltirefa
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by soltirefa » Mon May 20, 2019 1:22 pm

GuitarsWeB wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:12 pm
The shorter scale will take less tension to attain A-440 than a longer scale, but the strings will feel stiffer than a longer scale.
Agree. This has been my experience. You would think you would want to go to a higher tension set of strings, but the feeling of a shorter scale guitar is more taut, so I end up going to a lower tension set. You really want to pay attention to how tight/taut it feels, not the results of a calculation of tension.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by Michael.N. » Mon May 20, 2019 1:35 pm

Just accept the lower tension (which is just under 1/2 Kg per string). It should more than compensate for any feeling of increased stiffness. Besides it's not as though we don't shorten the string length on a 650 scale, we do it all the time as we play.
Historicalguitars.

GuitarsWeB
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by GuitarsWeB » Mon May 20, 2019 1:43 pm

soltirefa wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:22 pm
GuitarsWeB wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:12 pm
The shorter scale will take less tension to attain A-440 than a longer scale, but the strings will feel stiffer than a longer scale.
Agree. This has been my experience. You would think you would want to go to a higher tension set of strings, but the feeling of a shorter scale guitar is more taut, so I end up going to a lower tension set. You really want to pay attention to how tight/taut it feels, not the results of a calculation of tension.

If any have Jose Oribe’s book, “The Fine Guitar,” he writes about this on page 32 and 34.

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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by John Ray » Mon May 20, 2019 2:02 pm

I have made quite a few 630 and upwards of 40 640 scale guitars. I agree with James. Both sizes make for great guitars. Easy to play and very inviting.
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nmshu1
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by nmshu1 » Mon May 20, 2019 5:17 pm

billchivers wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 6:54 am
When discussing scale length people (above and in other threads) often question how 5mm from nut to saddle can make a noticeable difference and others with experience say that it does, but no-one on either side of the discussion ever mentions the drop in string tension with shorter scale. Is this because string tension is not a factor? I am not suggesting one way or the other, I am asking the question and interested to hear opinions/experience.
In fact, I often lower down half step with 432Hz. for my 635 guitars. It is more effective for playability...
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650 | Paulino Bernabe Torres 645 | Juan Hernandez Torres 640 | German V. Rubio Concert 635 | Kenny Hill Performance 630

nmshu1
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by nmshu1 » Mon May 20, 2019 5:22 pm

GuitarsWeB wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 1:12 pm
The shorter scale will take less tension to attain A-440 than a longer scale, but the strings will feel stiffer than a longer scale.
You are right. When I play the Last Tremolo by Barrios, 650 is easier than 630. However for most of repertoires, 630 is easier.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650 | Paulino Bernabe Torres 645 | Juan Hernandez Torres 640 | German V. Rubio Concert 635 | Kenny Hill Performance 630

nmshu1
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by nmshu1 » Mon May 20, 2019 5:33 pm

John Ray wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:02 pm
I have made quite a few 630 and upwards of 40 640 scale guitars. I agree with James. Both sizes make for great guitars. Easy to play and very inviting.
Do you have some recordings about your 630?

I tried your used 650 (nut50) Torres copy at GSI in Santa Monica, California, USA.

Will you make 630 with 7 strings? When I practice Coste Op.38(for 7 strings' guitar), I am not satisfied 6 strings' guitar...
Last edited by nmshu1 on Mon May 20, 2019 5:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650 | Paulino Bernabe Torres 645 | Juan Hernandez Torres 640 | German V. Rubio Concert 635 | Kenny Hill Performance 630

nmshu1
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by nmshu1 » Mon May 20, 2019 5:34 pm

James Lister wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:28 pm
billchivers wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 6:54 am
When discussing scale length people (above and in other threads) often question how 5mm from nut to saddle can make a noticeable difference and others with experience say that it does, but no-one on either side of the discussion ever mentions the drop in string tension with shorter scale. Is this because string tension is not a factor? I am not suggesting one way or the other, I am asking the question and interested to hear opinions/experience.
It has been covered before - but yes, a shorter scale guitar will have lower tension if you use the same strings - many makers/players will fit higher tension strings to shorter scale guitars to compensate, but if you stick with normal tension it will help playability, but you'll lose a bit of volume, and the tone will change a little.

I'm currently making my 3rd 630mm scale guitar, with a slightly reduced body size, and I really like them. I'll probably make one for myself when I get the time.

James
Do you have some recordings about your 630?

I prefer to Spanish style: Brilliant, Sweet, Warm, quick response...like my Paulino Bernabe Torres 645.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650 | Paulino Bernabe Torres 645 | Juan Hernandez Torres 640 | German V. Rubio Concert 635 | Kenny Hill Performance 630

soltirefa
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by soltirefa » Mon May 20, 2019 6:38 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again - one of the best things about getting a 630mm is that it made me appreciate my 650mm.

nmshu1
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by nmshu1 » Mon May 20, 2019 8:32 pm

soltirefa wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 6:38 pm
I've said it before and I'll say it again - one of the best things about getting a 630mm is that it made me appreciate my 650mm.
I understand your words. Smaller guitar can play quicker and smoothly for small hands with ease sometimes but not always.

When I practice Etudes, 630 helps to improve a lot. However when I play Barrios' works such as Last Tremolo and Forest Dream, I prefer to use 650 guitars. When I play El Columpio by Tarrega, I prefer to use my cheapest one Cordoba C9 650. That means to express music is not always the smaller guitar's advantages. Some guitars are good at some repertoires...

But daily exercises, I prefer to use 630 guitar for my small hands.
Otto Vowinkel Concert 650 | Paulino Bernabe Torres 645 | Juan Hernandez Torres 640 | German V. Rubio Concert 635 | Kenny Hill Performance 630

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James Lister
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Re: Traditional 630 Guitar maker

Post by James Lister » Tue May 21, 2019 8:25 am

nmshu1 wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:34 pm
James Lister wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:28 pm

I'm currently making my 3rd 630mm scale guitar, with a slightly reduced body size, and I really like them. I'll probably make one for myself when I get the time.

James
Do you have some recordings about your 630?

I prefer to Spanish style: Brilliant, Sweet, Warm, quick response...like my Paulino Bernabe Torres 645.
Not yet - I hope to have something recorded soon, but a finger injury is limiting my playing at the moment, so I need to find someone else to play for the recording.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

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