True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

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Mollbarre
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Mollbarre » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:07 pm

GuitarsWeB wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:17 am
FWIW...I've always heard ~15 years as well...

FWIW...well, it’s not worth too much...IMO

Truss-rods, ebony neck inlays help prevent neck and fingerboard from warping, they have nothing to do with neck angle. Although, neck angle issues and warp necks create the same problem...string too high over the fretboard.
I don't see what the issue is if it's true. Everything has a shelf life. It's not some ultimate insult, lol...
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:58 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:19 pm
...
Has anyone noticed that their guitar's responsiveness/ resonance changes from day to day, sometimes even over a period of a few hours? It is most noticeable to me when I take the guitar out of it's case after being in it overnight. I have not been able to come up with an explanation of why the guitar sound great some days and not so great on other days.
The main thing it might correlate to is humidity. Do you have a good hygrometer to check it with?
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:29 pm

Mollbarre wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:07 pm
I don't see what the issue is if it's true. Everything has a shelf life. It's not some ultimate insult, lol...
Yes, a fine example of the current trend for being offended by anything and everything. :lol:

Realstaff

Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Realstaff » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:49 pm

There’s an interview with David Russell on YouTube where he talks about this exact thing but specifically cedar top guitars.
He says his Ramirez from 1975 sounds even better. Check out 5min mark.


SteveL123
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:35 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:58 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:19 pm
...
Has anyone noticed that their guitar's responsiveness/ resonance changes from day to day, sometimes even over a period of a few hours? It is most noticeable to me when I take the guitar out of it's case after being in it overnight. I have not been able to come up with an explanation of why the guitar sound great some days and not so great on other days.
The main thing it might correlate to is humidity. Do you have a good hygrometer to check it with?
Humidity changes was my first thought. But I don't think it is that because there are high humidity days when it sounds good, and low humidity days when it does not, but not always.

Yes I have a good hygrometer. My guitars are always kept in good cases with Boveda Humidipaks whenever they are not being played.

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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by richtm » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:10 am

Do I get it right: mostly it's like - high humidity - the guitar sounds better? Just as a trend? Is this correct? Or is it different from guitar to guitar? Or does it depend on the top mateial? Spruce takes and Releases much more humdity than cedar does.

The other Input I wanted to check with you is: I sah Richard Bruné unwinding / untuning his guitars and store them, when they are not played. This would also save the neck a little bit from been bended. Do you do this? What's your experience with it? What are your thoughts about this?
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Ernest Köröskenyi 1977 Cedar; Pauline Bernabe Especial 2007 Spruce, 2012 Cedar; Andreas Kirmse 2017 Cedar DT; Philipp Lerche Torres 2018 Spruce

madrilla
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by madrilla » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:40 am

^ I recommend doing that. There was a bow in the top of my steel string. When I loosened the strings completely the bow disappeared.

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segobreawill
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by segobreawill » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:18 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:19 pm
segobreawill wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:07 pm
souldier wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:16 pm
I second what you guys both said! The guitar changes - yes, but we also change along with it throughout the years! Good point.
Has anyone noticed that their guitar's responsiveness/ resonance changes from day to day, sometimes even over a period of a few hours? It is most noticeable to me when I take the guitar out of it's case after being in it overnight. I have not been able to come up with an explanation of why the guitar sound great some days and not so great on other days.
Yes, most definitely! Some days the sound is "Wow!", where did that come from? And other days, it seems as if nothing is going right: I just want to finish my practice and get that 'thing' back into it's case and be done with it. Check the humidity/temperature on both good days and bad. And don't forget that if your guitar is of a little heavier build, you may see/hear the effects the next day and not so much the day before. The extra moisture in the air that the guitar absorbed doesn't just disappear the next day if R.H. is 45% - give it a bit of time, so it may still sound somewhat "off" even though temp and RH are perfect, and vice versa.

And don't forget that it's a different environment in the case than it is outside the case especially if you have a good case. And consider also whether or not the humidity/temperature is being controlled both in the case and in the room where the guitar is being played.

This is just my 2 cents about that issue, although at times I admit that nothing makes sense - it's just the capricious nature of the guitar. lol

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:55 pm

dmcmurray wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:37 pm
I am skeptical that guitars degrade significantly with age. Change? Sure, but lose complexity? That is about as subjective as it gets...The absence of any shared facts or scientific evidence to rely on makes the debate mostly semantics.
I'm just reporting my own experience. How one could communicate scientifically that one hears fewer complex overtones from a guitar that used to possess them, I have no idea. My hearing hasn't deteriorated BTW, well, only when my wife asks me to do something :wink:

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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by quixilver » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:52 am

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:55 pm
well, only when my wife asks me to do something :wink:
Common problem that we have and the impact of it can make our guitar’s lifespan even shorter :mrgreen:
"After food, air and water, classical guitar is the next necessity of life."

1988 Kazuo Sato | 2005 Tobias Berg | 2007 Rolf Eichinger | 2014 Alexandru Marian | 2015 Christoph Sembdner | 2015 Antonio Raya Ferrer | 2016 Masaki Sakurai P.C.

richtm
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by richtm » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:38 am

richtm wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:10 am
Do I get it right: mostly it's like - high humidity - the guitar sounds better? Just as a trend? Is this correct? Or is it different from guitar to guitar? Or does it depend on the top mateial? Spruce takes and Releases much more humdity than cedar does.

The other Input I wanted to check with you is: I sah Richard Bruné unwinding / untuning his guitars and store them, when they are not played. This would also save the neck a little bit from been bended. Do you do this? What's your experience with it? What are your thoughts about this?
:desole: Correction !!!!!!!!!! - to my last entry: Richard Bruné was getting back to me and here is what he stated: "I advocate leaving guitars at full tension even if they are being stored because guitars and stringed musical instruments are designed to be under tension perpetually except when being repaired or restrung".

What I saw was him tuning guitar up after they got shipped to him. Sorry for that missinformation!

So the first thing I was doing this morning after reading his information was tuning my guitars up again. :wink:

But what I really would like to know is: what contributes most - what are the significant impact factors of the lifespan of a guitar?

I did not get it yet… :|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ernest Köröskenyi 1977 Cedar; Pauline Bernabe Especial 2007 Spruce, 2012 Cedar; Andreas Kirmse 2017 Cedar DT; Philipp Lerche Torres 2018 Spruce

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tateharmann
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by tateharmann » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:48 am

Speaking of BRUNÉ...I recently stumbled upon this and found it pertinent to this question: https://www.rebrune.com/1888-antonio-de-torres-no-124
Original in all its parts and finish except for the fingerboard which we recently replaced, and the machines, which were replaced sometime around WW II, this instrument is an extremely rare example that still preserves its original varnish as applied by Torres, and hence the top, side and back thicknesses are still unaltered, placing it in the 95th percentile of surviving Torres guitars. The sound is absolutely astounding. At a recent Guitar Foundation of America listening test, this guitar was compared in the same hall with many modern hi-tech guitars with Nomex tops, and Smallman designs. The audience audibly gasped when it was first played, it was every bit the equal in volume and projection as any of these modern improvements, and far more interesting to listen to in terms of color and nuance.
FWIW :)
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Rognvald
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Rognvald » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:58 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:51 pm
In my experience, guitars that are played very hard get 'played out'...depending on degree of heaviness, that might take just a very few years. In at least some cases, if such a guitar is retired for a couple of years and then played back in, then it may well resume at least some of its former quality.
My guess is that double tops and lattice guitars will behave differently from fan types in this respect.

Hi, Stephen,
Can you define what you mean by a guitar being "played very hard" and "get played out?" What does a guitarist do, specifically, when he plays a guitar "very hard?" Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:56 pm

Rognvald wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:58 pm
Stephen Kenyon wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:51 pm
In my experience, guitars that are played very hard get 'played out'...depending on degree of heaviness, that might take just a very few years. In at least some cases, if such a guitar is retired for a couple of years and then played back in, then it may well resume at least some of its former quality.
My guess is that double tops and lattice guitars will behave differently from fan types in this respect.

Hi, Stephen,
Can you define what you mean by a guitar being "played very hard" and "get played out?" What does a guitarist do, specifically, when he plays a guitar "very hard?" Playing again . . . Rognvald
Much as it says really; a full=time player who is not only practising for several hours a day but does so both playing very loudly, compared to a non-professional, and in general quite a lot more notes in a given amount of time.
I used the expression 'played out' as the opposite of 'played in' e.g. the process to development, improvement in tone, volume etc that many find happens to new guitars. And I guess 'out' means deterioration in tone, volume etc etc.
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)
Simon Ambridge 'Hauser' (2018)

Mr.Rain
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Re: True that classical guitars have a short lifespan?

Post by Mr.Rain » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:18 pm

Mollbarre wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:07 pm
GuitarsWeB wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:17 am
FWIW...I've always heard ~15 years as well...

FWIW...well, it’s not worth too much...IMO

Truss-rods, ebony neck inlays help prevent neck and fingerboard from warping, they have nothing to do with neck angle. Although, neck angle issues and warp necks create the same problem...string too high over the fretboard.
I don't see what the issue is if it's true. Everything has a shelf life. It's not some ultimate insult, lol...
Nowaday things are built based in the programed obsolescence...
How many factory guitar are built with hide glue and finished in a self repairing finish? (shellac/oil etc...)
In the past items were built to last(whether if it was a table, a car or a guitar), and to have to the possibility of repairing them (why was the Ford T or the Beetle a success? easy maintenance) .

Old doesn't mean good, there is a lot of old rubbish, but I believe that instruments built over 50-100 years ago,using the best woods available(rosewood, cedar necks etc),were at least made to last, or to have that possibility to do so

Right now I have 4 Salvador Ibanez(among other antiques), all over 110 years old,they have being repaired, some of them countless times,still they sound and play nicely :mrgreen: (way better than a new factory guitar, and than some luthier instruments I had in the past...probably due to the years of drying and the extremely light construction ...)

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