Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Musical games to help develop improvisational skills.
Tom Wimsatt
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Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:45 pm

2018-02-25 12.39.21.jpg
I'm posting the score first, so you can look at the update. I started with your Am suggestion. After playing around with this on the guitar I then discovered something very simple that at least sounds better. For some reason I had it in my head that I had to end this with a #G...

I like easy transition points anyway. From the players perspective it gives them a chance to get themselves collected to play part B.

Please excuse this if it's still incorrect. I am learning this one bite at a time. I take small bites...
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Tom Wimsatt
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Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:58 pm

You may feel this is better suited for the very end. It is, I plan to do so (if it still makes sense to do so), with the addition of another A note (3rd string 2nd fret added ). This is similar (to me anyway ) to what was done in Pavane.
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:57 pm

Oops. Forgot to post. My attempt at playing this. .

1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Jules Wilkins
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Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Jules Wilkins » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:42 pm

Sounds much much better. I was beat from snowshoeing yesterday and did not have the energy to sit at the guitar, but hopefully will have time after work today.
A couple of loose points. Pavene ends in AM, not Am (maybe just a typo in your posting). Am is ACE, while AM is AC#E. C# of course does not exist in the scale of Am, so when it suddenly makes its appearance at the end that gives us the clue that something just changed.
Next point...when I ended the first measure with a G# I effectively forced you to start the second measure with an A, which you did instinctively knowing that it sounded right. When you ended your measure with G# you forced me in turn and I again forced you in the third measure. There are perhaps other possibilities, but resolving the G# with an A is the obvious one.
Next point...You talked somewhere about slowing things down in your measures and in my opinion this showed good judgement. In fact, one possible way you could have done your last measure would have been nothing more than an Am chord strummed. Essentially that is what you did except that you played it as an arpeggio which works wonderfully. I kind of like how the piece alternates between being rushed then slowed then rushed then slowed again.
Final point...I totally understand your perspective that theory, improv and composition seem premature. If you were struggling with any technical issue I would largely agree with you. I do realize that what you post may not be representative of what you are consistently capable of. In my mind unless I can play a piece flawlessly 10 times in succession I do not know how to play it well, and just because I manage to do it acceptably once for a posting I am not ashamed of it doesn't mean I can do it 10 times like that. I still cannot play Malaguena properly even once, so I know that D02 for now is the correct level for me. I would guess that you can relate. However, it is equally obvious that you are doing level D02 very well and in my opinion this is absolutely the right time for you to start exploring the theory side of things. I don't have a link to share off hand, but I have heard and read from multiple sources that the first step in learning a piece is to analyze the music, something that is impossible to do without at least a rudimentary understanding of theory. Without this understanding we may be able to play the notes but will be at a disadvantage when it comes to interpreting the piece.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:31 pm

Thanks for the information. I've been doing some on-line reading to start to get a feel for sounding strategies behind the minor scales, this will continue (slowly and not necessarily in an order you'll find to be coherent) as I move forward.

Your "next point" pretty much articulates what I was starting to notice, as a sort of circular problem solving situation, involving #G and A.... I could feel/hear this beginning to surface while working part A.

I agree with your points about including theory in this learning process. I've started searches on this forum and have a few possibilities in terms of books (Fundamentals of Musical Composition by Arnold Schoenberg, or Introduction to Harmony for Guitar w/Tab by Lawrence McDonald - a forum member), as well as a few youtube websites.

Thanks again.
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Jules Wilkins
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Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Jules Wilkins » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:50 am

I took the liberty of correcting your notation of your last measure. The low E is part of the base voice.
I then changed the key from Am to AM and am posting the first measure. I will record it later...no time just now.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4vbagnm6u04735c/game.PNG?dl=0
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Ed Butler
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Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Ed Butler » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:19 pm

Jules, Tom - it was interesting watch you both develop and evolve this piece. I learned a lot just observing.
Ed

Tom Wimsatt
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Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:10 pm

Thanks Ed. While it's true it's been a team effort, Jules has been the brains behind the majority of what you see. Composition is a totally new thing for me and, as you can see, Jules has been helping me with that along the way. :okok:
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:07 am

2018-02-28 20.04.41.jpg
Here's my input.
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1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:12 am

:oops: Here's a pretty feeble attempt at playing it.

Last edited by Tom Wimsatt on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Jules Wilkins
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Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Jules Wilkins » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:40 am

Ha, no more apologies from me about making my measures difficult to play :lol:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tavml6yhl6a45 ... 5.PNG?dl=0
I added some easier fingering for what you just submitted, hope you agree. My measure this time is fairly simple. Good luck ending section B. I also put a rest (temporary) in your final measure and added the DC al fine marking making it clear that whatever you now add (to replace the rest) feeds back to the beginning.
I need to practice this a lot more before I can play it well, but this gives the general idea at least.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 am

Updated with corrected version:
2018-03-01%2021_54_25.jpg
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Last edited by Tom Wimsatt on Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:29 am

Jules Wilkins wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:40 am
Ha, no more apologies from me about making my measures difficult to play :lol:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tavml6yhl6a45 ... 5.PNG?dl=0
I added some easier fingering for what you just submitted, hope you agree. My measure this time is fairly simple. Good luck ending section B. I also put a rest (temporary) in your final measure and added the DC al fine marking making it clear that whatever you now add (to replace the rest) feeds back to the beginning.
I need to practice this a lot more before I can play it well, but this gives the general idea at least.
And yes, you still hold the 6-finger guitar player award: Your last 4 notes are quite interesting, given the half -note E being held while playing those notes :sigaretta:
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

Jules Wilkins
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Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Jules Wilkins » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:59 am

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:29 am
given the half -note E being held while playing those notes :sigaretta:
I am not sure what that means.
Other than the fact that I have put considerable extra "rests" towards the end as I try to remember where my fingers need to go next, purely a consequence of posting prior to taking the time required to learn the section well, when I listen to this I cannot help but feel pleased with the result. You are not writing your sections the way I would have any more than I am writing mine the way you would have and at first I even found myself questioning some of your choices, and yet for a first effort at a joint composition I think we are doing a fine job indeed and when I play it through and listen to my posting I not only understand but I fully approve of the choices I initially questioned. Interesting exercise and I am looking forward to your final submission.
I did leave you with a bit of a challenge as you have the task of leading the listener back into the key of Am. I haven't tried this myself (it is after all your measure) but I suspect it may be a bit tricky. I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Perhaps I should apologize for the difficulty this piece is proving to be, but I won't. Firstly, it was not my intention...it just somehow went in that direction...and secondly it may have stretched you (and me) but I think as a learning experience we are both the better for it.
"We all need people who will give us feedback. That’s how we improve." — Bill Gates
"The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement." — unknown

Tom Wimsatt
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Northern Alabama

Re: Do2, two voices, x players, 1 measure, ABA format, will run til finished.

Post by Tom Wimsatt » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:56 am

Tom Wimsatt wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 am
Here's the score. I accidentally left out the fingering notation. It was not intentional, I just forgot.

Ignore also the rest at the start. I cannot figure out how to get rid of it. I inserted it so I could play along with it. Gives me a chance to position fingers. ...
2018-03-01 21.54.25.jpg
My fingers were starting to hurt. Getting pretty tough to play ..
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Last edited by Tom Wimsatt on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1989 Takamine C132S
Yamaha CG-100A

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