Doubletop Guitars

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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apollo335
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Doubletop Guitars

Post by apollo335 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:05 pm

Anyone know of makers and models/numbers that make doubletop guitars?

annoost

Post by annoost » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:58 pm

Manuel Contreras

Ann

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owl
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Post by owl » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:38 am

Hill Guitars have posted in this thread

viewtopic.php?t=10157

Owl
Never, ever give up!... I leave my songprint on your heart.

Frederich Holtier

Post by Frederich Holtier » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:08 am

Dear Ann,
Contreras II doesn't make Double Top guitars. He builds guitars with double back. The Double Top technology reffers to a guitar top built using two thin (0,5mm) "skins" of wood laminated over an extremely light composite core -Nomex.
The list of Double Top guitar makers is short. Here are a few names that I know:
Gernot Wagner, Matthias Dammann, Randy Reynolds, John Dick, Leszek Gajdzik, Jeremy Locke, Keny Hill, Fritz Mueller and myself.
Frederich Holtier.

annoost

Post by annoost » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:47 am

I know Frederich that most double tops are guitares with in fact a double buttom of the guitare.The name is confusing but non the less they are called double top guitars.
There are indeed not that many luthiers who use the reinforced top , I suppose that the materials used there are not the same as for the double topguitars withe double buttom as I thouht that the purpose of a "double back" is to limit vibrations and that cannot be the purpose of a "double top" ??or am i wrong.
The fact is that if Apollo asks about doubletop guitars you cannot know if he really wants a double top or double back as they have the same name. :oops:

Ann

Mike Taylor

Post by Mike Taylor » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:47 pm

I'm no expert, but one would intuitively arrive at the conclusion that a double top (soundboard) would not be as easilly excited as a single thickness top so it would not have as much sound. I though one of the main goals in spending lots of money on a guitar was to get away from laminated components such as tops, sides, and backs.

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owl
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Post by owl » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:19 pm

Luthier Fritz Mueller has this to say:

Doubletops are the new standard

So, in terms of sound and playability, what can you expect from a double-top guitar?

* Significantly more power and volume, creating a true dynamic range
for the instrument;
* Excellent projection;
* Exceptional balance and note-to-note evenness;
* Excellent clarity and separation of notes;
* Excellent sustain;
* An extremely large spectrum of colors, tones, and textures;
* An extremely responsive instrument that reacts to the lightest touch,
yet can also be pushed hard without breaking up the sound;
* A rich, meaningful guitar sound with powerful, firm basses and
brilliant trebles.

Owl
Never, ever give up!... I leave my songprint on your heart.

Don Quichotte

Post by Don Quichotte » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:21 pm

"tapa" is translated as "top", but more Americanized as "soundboard".
In Contreras' thinking, he was making a second "tapa", ie. thin piece of tone wood (usually cedar) minus bracing and adding it to the back (not bottom!) with the idea that it would reflect the sound and add tonal richness in a way that a solid structural piece of rosewood (back) can't.

This is different to the modern "double top" which is more accurately referred to as a "sandwich top" since it's actually a triple top.

Personally I believe that the contribution on the rigidity is that much that the dampening of the instrument is considerably less which leads to higher reflection and consequently to louder instruments.
The sound pattern of the instrument will change as well since some harmonics will be less dampened than the others leading to another tonal richness.

Greg Smallman was very aware of this property when he was building his lattice braced instruments.( back and sides multi-layer or laminated concept with large amounts of epoxy glue)
Epoxy sound ? :lol: :lol: :lol: For sure not.

For double tops see also:

http://www.classicalguitars.ca/doubletops.htm

( site of Luthier Fritz Mueller referring to Owl’s reply)

and
http://www.holtierluthier.com/models.htm

arons

Post by arons » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:29 pm

Owl wrote: So, in terms of sound and playability, what can you expect from a double-top guitar?

* Significantly more power and volume, creating a true dynamic range
for the instrument;
* Excellent projection;
* Exceptional balance and note-to-note evenness;
* Excellent clarity and separation of notes;
* Excellent sustain;
* An extremely large spectrum of colors, tones, and textures;
* An extremely responsive instrument that reacts to the lightest touch,
yet can also be pushed hard without breaking up the sound;
* A rich, meaningful guitar sound with powerful, firm basses and
brilliant trebles.
LOL...I sure hope we'd expect these qualities out of any high-priced concert guitar (doubletop or not)! Definitely worth checking out Mueller's site provided by Don Quichotte to understand more about why these instruments are supposedly so special.

Best,
Aron

Mike Taylor

Post by Mike Taylor » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:39 pm

Sorry folks, I should have researched more before posting and I could have answered my own question. I read a similar article. It appears that there are two layers of extra thin tone wood glued together with a piece of honeycombed meshed material called nomex in between. This creates a much lighter soundboard even though the composite is thicker than a normal soundboard and is more easily excited. Sounds feasible.

Astra Piotr

price

Post by Astra Piotr » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:27 pm

Hello everyone,

It seems that all the best is for the reach. I would have to spend nearly my year's salary for a guitar by Mueller. :cry: My country is not too generous for people. I wish I had been born, say, in Switzerland :roll: :roll:

Astra Piotr

correction

Post by Astra Piotr » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:30 pm

By writing "reach" I meant "rich" What a silly mistake :x

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