Der Jung tuners are actually good

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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rojarosguitar
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat May 05, 2018 7:21 am

Maybe you can fit a stripe of a golpeador foil or some other thick foil, or a piece of veneer (you will have to wet the veneer and bend it, otherwise it will break) between the ball bearing and the wood on the side towards the nut so that the ball bearing cannot be bent towards the nut?

As to the weight I don't think they are excessively heavy, but also not extremely light.
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Michael.N.
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by Michael.N. » Sat May 05, 2018 9:07 am

It's relatively easy if you have access to a lathe because you can do a same grain bushing, then re-drill the holes correctly.
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SteveL123
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by SteveL123 » Sat May 05, 2018 2:58 pm

Michael.N. wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:07 am
It's relatively easy if you have access to a lathe because you can do a same grain bushing, then re-drill the holes correctly.
Do you mean plug the holes with glued in dowels and re-drill? I would need a jig which I do not have. The current holes would need to be enlarged before gluing in over size dowels.

SteveL123
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by SteveL123 » Sat May 05, 2018 3:07 pm

rojarosguitar wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 7:21 am
Maybe you can fit a stripe of a golpeador foil or some other thick foil, or a piece of veneer (you will have to wet the veneer and bend it, otherwise it will break) between the ball bearing and the wood on the side towards the nut so that the ball bearing cannot be bent towards the nut?

As to the weight I don't think they are excessively heavy, but also not extremely light.
I had a similar idea. I was thinking of using some kind of shims to take up the space where it would compress the shims only. Since bending foils and veneers of the correct varying thickness and fitting them is difficult. I think I am going to use Birch tooth picks scraped to the correct thickness and glue them in with CA glue one by one and build them up.

Edit: After doing trial runs of inserting tooth picks as shims, I gave up.

Plan B: After cleanup with a diamond burr ( there's some wax in the heads stock), I built up the gaps with Epoxy. After it's fully cured, I will fit the tuners by sanding or add more Epoxy if necessary.

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HNLim
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by HNLim » Sun May 06, 2018 8:14 am

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I think there is some wisdom in allowing a big rivert head. This is how Yamaha solve the problem of a big revert head on my 2006 Yamaha GC70.

My previous 1978 Yamaha GC30A had the rivert head on the E6 loosen which resulted in a worn out gear and made it impossible to tune the 6th string and fortunately the Gotoh had a close match for the original 39.2mm spacing replaced with a 39mm spacing lyra tuning machine.
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1980 Yamaha GC30A - BRW/Spruce
2006 Yamaha GC70 - BRW/ Spruce
2015 Sen #5 - BRW/Spruce
2017 LHN - BRW/Spruce

SteveL123
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by SteveL123 » Sun May 06, 2018 2:47 pm

While bigger rivet heads may be stronger than smaller ones, I wonder if that was the root cause of the worn out gear on your 1978 Yamaha GC30A? Was just the gear worn or was the bearing that the gear rides on also worn?

One easy way to check how well a machine head is installed is to loosen all the strings to zero lbs and push on the outboard end of the roller shaft towards the nut. If you see any movement, the install was not perfect and will wear out the gears and inboard bearing prematurely.

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HNLim
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by HNLim » Sun May 06, 2018 3:39 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:47 pm
While bigger rivet heads may be stronger than smaller ones, I wonder if that was the root cause of the worn out gear on your 1978 Yamaha GC30A? Was just the gear worn or was the bearing that the gear rides on also worn?

One easy way to check how well a machine head is installed is to loosen all the strings to zero lbs and push on the outboard end of the roller shaft towards the nut. If you see any movement, the install was not perfect and will wear out the gears and inboard bearing prematurely.
The smaller rivet head definately is a contributing factor. The posts holding the worm gear is loose.
1980 Yamaha GC30A - BRW/Spruce
2006 Yamaha GC70 - BRW/ Spruce
2015 Sen #5 - BRW/Spruce
2017 LHN - BRW/Spruce

SteveL123
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by SteveL123 » Sun May 06, 2018 3:47 pm

HNLim wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 3:39 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 2:47 pm
While bigger rivet heads may be stronger than smaller ones, I wonder if that was the root cause of the worn out gear on your 1978 Yamaha GC30A? Was just the gear worn or was the bearing that the gear rides on also worn?

One easy way to check how well a machine head is installed is to loosen all the strings to zero lbs and push on the outboard end of the roller shaft towards the nut. If you see any movement, the install was not perfect and will wear out the gears and inboard bearing prematurely.
The smaller rivet head definately is a contributing factor. The posts holding the worm gear is loose.
What I was suggesting was: if the post ( I called it shaft) was not equally supported on the outboard end, it could have been the cause of the loose post, worn gear and loose rivets.

SteveL123
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by SteveL123 » Mon May 14, 2018 3:58 am

Got the Der Jung 102AS-S4 tuners installed. I used epoxy to fill the gap on the nut side of the wood. After it cured, I could not insert the tuners into the hole, which was a good thing. I proceeded to file down the epoxy slowly with a diamond file to fit the bearing races into the epoxy built up holes, which took about an hour. After it was fitted, there was no movement when I wiggled on the roller shaft towards the nut, indicating a good snug fit. These tuners feel very smooth and precise. I hope this work was worth it and these tuners will last a very long time and stay precise.

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Leo
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Re: Der Jung tuners are actually good

Post by Leo » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:58 am

Got my Der Jung 102G-AS in today to replace tuners that were not working well. So far so good, turn the string very well without any sloppy play like the old ones. With the old ones I would try to tune up to pitch and they would overshoot the pitch and I would need to tune back and forth till I got it right.

I think the 102G-AS and the 102G-AS-S4 are the top of the line for Der Jung. The S4 has bearing system that mine doesn't have, but that is the only difference. They work well and turn the strings very smoothly. Not the most beautiful tuners that I have ever seen, but for 70 dollars they are a good value and look good enough for me.
2012 Hippner, Spruce-birdseye maple
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