We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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rinneby
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Location: Sweden

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:30 am

Ruki1414 wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:20 pm
Hello,

here is my 72er Hiroshi Tamura P50. My already 5th old Japanese lady (two Yairis, two Matanos). Probably the best sounding one. Great sustain, singing overtones, loud and well-balanced sound.
Cedar top, 655/52.

Image
:bravo:
1962 - Rokutaro Nakade
1992 - Manuel Bellido
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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James A. Showalter
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by James A. Showalter » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:28 am

Keep us informed. I may end up making that adjustment on my '72 Ryoji as well.
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

Nappingdog
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Nappingdog » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:13 pm

So I got a Mitsuru Tamura 500 (1970) yesterday, I was stacking up against a 80’s Contreras, 70’s Ramirez 1a, Paul McGill traditionaland a 1970 Kohno 10. even played a 2015 Jim Redgate and I gotta say this guitar really held its own with all of them. Tone woods aside this Indian/spruce is lightly built with responsive sparkly treble and bold but balanced basses. It’s really loud. Now don’t get me wrong the Redgate was in a class of its own but this little guy from Tamura is well a concert guitar.
Mark A, tupelo MS
Mateo Crespi 2009
Sakurai no 5 1975
Kenny Hill(la Mancha) Munich
Martin om-21 steel string
Takamine hirade h-15
Hippner Fleta 2013 spruce/Honduran rosewood
Mitsuru Tamura 500 spruce/indian

Agelastos
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Agelastos » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:27 pm

I would like to ask all you Japanese-adoring delcampers a basic question with regards to a Ryoji Matsuoka MH80 from 1977 that is on sale, not that stupidly far from where I live (but still quite far...).
Is it worth the trip to go check it out and, most importantly, is it worth the asking price 800 Euros?

:merci:

Agelastos
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by Agelastos » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:59 pm

I found this older topic,
viewtopic.php?t=79209
the asking price was significantly lower, but there is an unresolved issue with regards to whether it has laminated back and sides, the seller seemed to insist that it was all solid...

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:07 pm

Agelastos wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:59 pm
I found this older topic,
viewtopic.php?t=79209
the asking price was significantly lower, but there is an unresolved issue with regards to whether it has laminated back and sides, the seller seemed to insist that it was all solid...
The M80 was at that time a mid model and I find it very hard to believe it was an all solid woods guitar. Great sounding maybe, but not solid back and sides.

/J
1962 - Rokutaro Nakade
1992 - Manuel Bellido
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

gso
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Location: Bulgaria, Europe

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by gso » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:46 pm

Hello :)

Is here anybody who can help me with some information about this old Japanese guitar ?
I don't know who is the manufacturer.

Thanks a lot !
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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:50 pm

gso wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:46 pm
Hello :)

Is here anybody who can help me with some information about this old Japanese guitar ?
I don't know who is the manufacturer.

Thanks a lot !
Hi Gso. This is school example of a very cheap factory made vintage Japanese guitar, probably from the 60s or even the 50s, made for export. Most likely all laminated woods. Is it yours?

Kind regards
/Jon
1962 - Rokutaro Nakade
1992 - Manuel Bellido
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

gso
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:12 am
Location: Bulgaria, Europe

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by gso » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:06 pm

rinneby wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:50 pm
gso wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:46 pm
Hello :)

Is here anybody who can help me with some information about this old Japanese guitar ?
I don't know who is the manufacturer.

Thanks a lot !
Hi Gso. This is school example of a very cheap factory made vintage Japanese guitar, probably from the 60s or even the 50s, made for export. Most likely all laminated woods. Is it yours?

Kind regards
/Jon

The guitar is not mine yet. I like it and I'm planning to renew it .
Thank you very much for your help !

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:07 pm

So, here's my review of the Rokutaro Nakade A2 from 1962.

It's a very light guitar, probably around 1,2 kg or so, but it doesn't feel fragile at all. It's well built with solid spruce top and solid Indian rosewood back and sides. I'm not sure if the fingerboard is ebony. The top has many lacquer cracks, but nothing trough the woods as far as I can tell. The action is low at 3.2/2.8 mm and the neck is straight, with a little relief. The scale length is 650/51 mm and the neck shape is slim, pretty comfortable actually. Sound wise it's quite responsive and transparent due to the light construction and the separation is great. Kind of "airy". The basses are very nice and the trebles sweet and bright, sustain above 12th is actually ok. A charming sound really, but not modern at all. I replaced the tuners with custom made Rubners, since the original ones were quite ugly and didn't function very well. The frets are like new, probably replaced recently. All in all I'm pleasantly surprised and it's certainly one of the most interesting guitars I've played from this era. This also confirms what I already knew: Many Japanese classical guitars from the 60s has, in lack of better words, soul...

Image
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All the best from Sweden
/Jon
1962 - Rokutaro Nakade
1992 - Manuel Bellido
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

dandan
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by dandan » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:24 pm

Congrats, Jon. Those Rubners look lovely.
1966 Sakazo Nakade D
1969 Rokutaro Nakade A9
1977 Aria AG80 (Masaru Takeiri)
2015 El Vito Concert RC

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:48 pm

dandan wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:24 pm
Congrats, Jon. Those Rubners look lovely.
Indeed, real MOP too ;)

/J
1962 - Rokutaro Nakade
1992 - Manuel Bellido
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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James A. Showalter
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by James A. Showalter » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:06 am

Jon,
That Rokutaro Nakade is awesome. The tuners are a perfect touch adding to the allure of the old guitar.

GSO,
It sounds like you're probably planning to restore the old Made in Japan guitar. Being that it's a low-end guitar it probably doesn't have a lot of value so I'll tell you about my restoration efforts on my '72 Ryoji Matsuoka and maybe that will inspire you. It had cracks in the sound board and just looked like hell but it sounded very nice. I finally decided I wanted to tighten it up a bit but did not want to invest any money on getting a professional job. So I filled the cracks with Gorilla Glue which expands and then sanded the whole top flat first with 220-grit, then 600-grit sandpaper. I followed the sanding with a hand buffing using very fine steel wool and coated it with multiple coats of Royal Lac applying it in the manner of a French Polish and water sanding with 600-grit between each coat. After about 3 coats of Royal Lac it looked good enough for my standard and I put a set of Aranjuez Bright Brass medium tension strings on it and tuned it up. I just got it tuned and was enjoying its newly revived tone when the D-string broke. I should get a replacement string tomorrow and then I'll take a picture and post it. Can't do that with a missing string - it would be like taking a selfie with one shoe on. I am very satisfied with the outcome but do plan to water sand again with 600-grit and apply another coat of Royal Lac when I change the strings in a few months. I might do that a few times over the next year or so as I seek a higher level of perfection in the finish. I'll either get it better or run out of Royal Lac and call it done.

Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed the story.
James
1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

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rinneby
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Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by rinneby » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:51 am

James A. Showalter wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:06 am
Jon,
That Rokutaro Nakade is awesome. The tuners are a perfect touch adding to the allure of the old guitar.
Thanks James. Also, looking forward to the those pictures of your Matsuoka!

/J
1962 - Rokutaro Nakade
1992 - Manuel Bellido
2007 - Curt Claus Voigt
2017 - Tobias Braun

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

User avatar
James A. Showalter
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:20 pm
Location: Mississippi

Re: We who love Japanese classical guitars - Delcamp

Post by James A. Showalter » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:19 am

rsz_ryoji-san.jpg
This is my 1972 Ryoji Matsuoka that I repaired the sound board on. It's still not pretty but it is structurally sound now and still plays well. It has a deep tone and is easy to play. I'll probably readdress the finish with another application of water sanding with 600-grit and another coat of Royal Lac finish the next time I change strings.

The large blemish below the sound hole was a deep gouge where the previous owner planted his pinky while playing. He ate up a bit of the cedar top with his fingernail and there was a crack due to grain separation through its middle. The other wide blemishes are grain separation cracks and the sound board had curled up parallel to each of them. When I filled each of these with the expanding glue and sanded it the curled wood was in some areas removed with the excess glue by the flattening process resulting in the medium blemishes. There were other thinner separation cracks as well that did not exhibit the curling of the sound board. These filled with the glue and sanded flat nicely and can be seen as linear features on the sound board.

I tried to rotate the photo but had no luck.
James
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1972 Ryoji Matsuoka, NO 18
1990 Takamine C132S
2014 Sakurai Kohno Pro-J
Martin Guitars (D28, MC28, D12-28, J-40)
National Resonator Guitar
Les Paul

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