Requinto builders in USA?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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David Norton
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Requinto builders in USA?

Post by David Norton » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:53 pm

The requintos I've seen are "pretty basic", to be charitable. Who are USA luthiers who build these at an artisan level?
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

nmshu1
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by nmshu1 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:02 am

David Norton wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:53 pm
The requintos I've seen are "pretty basic", to be charitable. Who are USA luthiers who build these at an artisan level?
German V. Rubio built Requinto at an artisan level...it is available at Guitar Salon International now.
Last edited by nmshu1 on Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2014 Otto Vowinkel Concert 650; 2013 Córdoba C9 650;
2015 Paulino Bernabe Torres 645;
2015 Juan Hernandez Torres 640; 1986 Sweet Tone 640;
2016 German V. Rubio Concert 635; 2016 German V. Rubio Estudio 635;
2015 Kenny Hill Performance 630

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SeanWinkler
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by SeanWinkler » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:04 am

William Cumpiano builds requintos. There is one of his on e - b a y right now.
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Michael.N. » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:17 pm

Requinto's are normally tuned to A. Tune them to G and you have a terz, scale lengths for the two are the same. Historical terz are just a smaller version of ladder braced romantic guitars. I've even tuned one to standard E but had to accept lower tension. You can even use them as a more portable travel guitar. All in all pretty useful things to have at your disposal.
Historicalguitars.

CT20
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by CT20 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:14 pm

The Pimentel family in Albuquerque.

Salvo
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Salvo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm

Forget requintos, i.e. instruments of a smaller scale, too often badly designed and built. You can now enjoy low E tuning (bass), low A tuning (baritone), G tuning (terz), A tuning (requinto) and even B tuning (no name for it yet!) on standard scale, high quality instruments, which happen to sound way better than any poorly up- or down-sized guitar. All you need is just to mount the new sets by Aquila Strings:

https://shop.aquilacorde.com/product-ca ... -a-tuning/

These new strings have been developed also because of my personal insistence with Mimmo Peruffo of Aquila (who gladly and very actively took up the challenge). I'm promoting these new string sets because I can’t wait to hear more top quality chamber music on guitars. I can’t stand the ubiquitous cheap arrangements of famous pieces for standard guitars, with the inevitable compression of range that messes up with the original polyphony; nor do I tolerate small-scale, toy-like pseudo-guitars. With the new strings, most of the top chamber music repertoire becomes playable and - to my ears - makes real musical sense, just as those few, high quality arrangements do that have entered the solo repertoire permanently. Here is some of my recordings in support of my claims:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-RggB ... e8w7fNwTPA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-ZSP- ... uCP0g1XStg

And - as Mimmo likes to stress - such new tunings open up a whole new world of possibilities for student ensembles, with no need for different instruments.

I’ll start soon publishing performance-ready editions of chamber music trascriptions at all difficulty levels (please note: transcriptions, not arrangements!). I’d love to have everybody’s comment on the above. Thanks!

Salvo Marcuccio

soltirefa
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by soltirefa » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:54 pm

Forget requintos, i.e. instruments of a smaller scale, too often badly designed and built. You can now enjoy low E tuning (bass), low A tuning (baritone), G tuning (terz), A tuning (requinto) and even B tuning (no name for it yet!) on standard scale, high quality instruments, which happen to sound way better than any poorly up- or down-sized guitar. All you need is just to mount the new sets by Aquila Strings:

https://shop.aquilacorde.com/product-ca ... -a-tuning/
That's very interesting and great. I wonder if they're sold in the US yet.

Editions Orphee had strings to tune up to G. I found the 1st string G a bit thin. I'd be interested to see how these Aquila compare.

soltirefa
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by soltirefa » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:59 pm

I tried a German Vazquez requinto briefly when I was in his shop. I was thinking the short scale would make playing easier. But I actually found it hard to play. Maybe with more time I'd get used to it. But if you're going to get a requinto because you think playing a shorter scale would be easier - not necessarily.

Salvo
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Salvo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:27 pm

soltirefa wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:59 pm
I tried a German Vazquez requinto briefly when I was in his shop. I was thinking the short scale would make playing easier. But I actually found it hard to play. Maybe with more time I'd get used to it. But if you're going to get a requinto because you think playing a shorter scale would be easier - not necessarily.
Right. It's definitely going to be harder. It is essentially a different instrument. And due to the sheer difference in production volumes, builders are very far from having with requintos the same level of experience and craftsmanship they have with guitars. Not to mention the wrong scaling of the body of the instrument (another false myth). Truth is, such instruments were only needed because of string technology limitations, which today have been overcome.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Michael.N. » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:46 pm

Might depend on the builder and how much experience that builder has. They certainly don't require any more skill to make at least not in a technical sense, the skill set is essentially the same. They aren't necessarily a scaled down guitar either. Just a different version or perhaps an instrument in it's own right, the much smaller body size and smaller soundboard aggregate will have consequences on the tone - you just have to remember that it's not meant to be a 650 mm scale concert classical guitar. If you want that type of sound you may as well buy a 650 mm concert classical!
As for ease (or not) of playing - well that probably depends on the players and how much time they are prepared to put into the instrument. You can't expect it to feel easy when coming from a much larger 650 mm guitar, it takes time to become accustomed to that type of change. If you had been playing a 580 mm scale for a few years and then tried a 650 mm for the very first time no doubt you would be telling everyone just how fiendishly difficult a 650 scale is to play. Of course there are other factors such as hand/finger size but that applies to all stringed instruments.
Historicalguitars.

Salvo
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Salvo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:26 pm

Michael.N. wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:46 pm
Might depend on the builder and how much experience that builder has. They certainly don't require any more skill to make at least not in a technical sense, the skill set is essentially the same.
Skills have nothing to do with inferior sound quality of requintos (of course, they may be built very well technically and aesthetically). It is just the vast collective wisdom on that specific size accumulated during the last 150 years or so that make standard guitars superior.
Michael.N. wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:46 pm
They aren't necessarily a scaled down guitar either. Just a different version or perhaps an instrument in it's own right, the much smaller body size and smaller soundboard aggregate will have consequences on the tone - you just have to remember that it's not meant to be a 650 mm scale concert classical guitar. If you want that type of sound you may as well buy a 650 mm concert classical!
If your starting assumption is that a requinto is not meant to sound as good as a 650 scale concert guitar, then I fully agree. Myself, I like that kind of sound and I expect that level of quality from an extended range instrument. Otherwise, I would just turn to ukelele, mandolin, etc. So I would buy a 650 mm concert classical and, in order to get a different range, I would string it with extended range strings.
Michael.N. wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:46 pm
As for ease (or not) of playing - well that probably depends on the players and how much time they are prepared to put into the instrument. You can't expect it to feel easy when coming from a much larger 650 mm guitar, it takes time to become accustomed to that type of change. If you had been playing a 580 mm scale for a few years and then tried a 650 mm for the very first time no doubt you would be telling everyone just how fiendishly difficult a 650 scale is to play. Of course there are other factors such as hand/finger size but that applies to all stringed instruments.
That's exactly my point. What if you can get a great sound from the usual 650 mm scale instrument you master, just a perfect fourth or fifth higher or lower? Why should a player still look for radically different, inferior sound quality instruments? Not me. Would you force beginners into learning how to handle a different instrument? Of course not! As a consequence, they'll have little or no opportunity to do real high quality ensemble music, just cheap arrangements (in the past they were aptly called "reductions") ...

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Michael.N.
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Michael.N. » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:07 pm

Sorry but that's not my starting assumption at all. Good, better, are all subjective opinions. All you are saying is that a requinto is inferior. It isn't, it's just different. Some people actually like the sound just as it is, no different to some people liking the sound of a ukulele or the fact that some people prefer playing the lute or a romantic guitar instead of a modern classical. In which case it isn't inferior. Presumably they play them because they like the sound just as they are and who are we to impose our tonal aesthetic on them. Of course you are perfectly free to tune a modern guitar to any note you wish. Some people may agree with you, I'm sure some will not.
i don't know what the original request in respect of requinto's has to do with forcing anyone (beginners or otherwise) into anything. If people wish to play a requinto - let them! I've made and played terz guitars. Lovely little instruments!
Historicalguitars.

Salvo
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Salvo » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:30 pm

Michael.N. wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:07 pm
Sorry but that's not my starting assumption at all. Good, better, are all subjective opinions. All you are saying is that a requinto is inferior. It isn't, it's just different. Some people actually like the sound just as it is, no different to some people liking the sound of a ukulele or the fact that some people prefer playing the lute or a romantic guitar instead of a modern classical. In which case it isn't inferior. Presumably they play them because they like the sound just as they are and who are we to impose our tonal aesthetic on them. Of course you are perfectly free to tune a modern guitar to any note you wish. Some people may agree with you, I'm sure some will not.
i don't know what the original request in respect of requinto's has to do with forcing anyone (beginners or otherwise) into anything. If people wish to play a requinto - let them! I've made and played terz guitars. Lovely little instruments!
No need to be sorry. I invite you to read carefully what I wrote. Of course what I state is just my subjective opinion; do not mistake my strongly expressed (in the limits of my modest English), clear personal opinion, for an attempt to impose anything on anybody. And where, ever, did I try to impose my "tonal aesthetic" on anybody?
We are all, fortunately, perfectly free to play what we want: requintos, terz guitars, whatever! I play standard guitars with a different tuning, and I'm more than sure that plenty of people will disagree. However, maybe others (a minority, no doubt) could find this rather unusual approach to guitar ensemble music worth of some consideration. This is what a forum like this is all about: sharing opinions so that others may learn about different points of view and have some food for thougths. THEIR thoughts.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by Michael.N. » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:48 pm

No that's perfectly OK. We must remember that the original request was for makers of requintos in the USA. You have given an alternative to tuning the guitar to A with these Aquila strings. That is perfectly valid. I haven't tried these particular Aquila A strings (I've tried many Aquila string types) but I'm sure that one day that I will. I don't know what David Norton will do but perhaps he has a particular reason for wanting a small requinto. Maybe he will try the Aquila strings too.
Historicalguitars.

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David Norton
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Re: Requinto builders in USA?

Post by David Norton » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:17 am

Michael.N. wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:48 pm
I don't know what David Norton will do but perhaps he has a particular reason for wanting a small requinto. Maybe he will try the Aquila strings too.
My interest in acquiring a "good" requinto involves the shorter scale, for playing early 16th century 6-course lute or vihuela music without a capo. Capirola, Milano, Luys Milan, Alonso Mudarra, Spinacino. A huge repertoire available. There are some tremendous stretches required in certain pieces!

There's also something called the requinto jaropo which appears to essentially be a four-string guitar of near standard size. I haven't ruled that out, either.

I'd be looking to have one made which was not a flashy Mariachi type model, with the bling-bling rosette and purflings. And also not one with either a cutaway nor built-in electronics. As for seeking out a USA builder, well that's where I live, and why deal with international shipping and customs/import charges if I don't have to?
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

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