Machine heads

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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petermc61
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Re: Machine heads

Post by petermc61 » Tue May 15, 2018 4:59 am

Arash Ahmadi wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:45 pm
petermc61 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:53 pm
Arash Ahmadi wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 4:13 pm


I am looking for the best but not the most expensive one.
Klaus Scheller (which are quite different to Schaller) are in my view the absolute best. Unless you do something very unusual with engraving or finish they should cost less than most Rodgers, some (but not all Alessi) and Graf. They will cost more than Sloane, Rubner and Gotoh and are worth it in my view. You have to own them and use them to appreciate why.
I checked their website, they seem to have a few different models. Which one are you referring to?
The differences are cosmetic. They mechanics are the same. They are hand made tuners designed and built by Klaus Scheller. It’s the mechanics and their elegance that make them a stunning set.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Machine heads

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue May 15, 2018 5:56 am

I don't have Klaus Schellers tuners myself, but Sebastian Stenzel uses them more and more on order (Rodgers is ordered less due to very high price in Germany and also because Schellers are at least as good).
I had a chance to check them on several guitars made by Sebastian Stenzel recently and they are just gorgeous, hoever simple or ornate they might look. This is a pinnacle of mechanics, technically. Hope Scheller will keep up this quality. It certainly has it's price.
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es335
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Re: Machine heads

Post by es335 » Tue May 15, 2018 9:26 am

+1

Another vote for Klaus Scheller tuners, mechanically the best tuners I came across and I really admire the elegance of their puristic design. It’s always fun to see when an experienced guitarist turns Scheller tuners for the first time. It’s usually a blend of unbelieve and delight, not unlike children discovering sweets for the first time! :D

BTW Klaus Scheller was already retired when he started the tuner business in 2008 and in 2014 the production was shifted to the Margarete Goetze GmbH with Klaus still being available in the background. So the question of quality continuity had already been solved in time. Apart from this, these tuners are (re-)adjustable though that’s not user servicable! :wink:

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Machine heads

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue May 15, 2018 2:38 pm

Good piece of information. Thanks. The time will show how the transition from a 'solo' manual work to some kind of manufacture poduction will succeed.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
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es335
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Re: Machine heads

Post by es335 » Tue May 15, 2018 3:06 pm

Apologies if my post might have caused a misconception. They are still handmade but not by Klaus Scheller personally any more. It was a well conducted transition due to increasing demand and Klaus‘ advanced age of course. This happened well 4 years ago, so the success of this step is well proven meanwhile. :wink:

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Arash Ahmadi
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Re: Machine heads

Post by Arash Ahmadi » Tue May 15, 2018 6:34 pm

es335 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 3:06 pm
Apologies if my post might have caused a misconception. They are still handmade but not by Klaus Scheller personally any more. It was a well conducted transition due to increasing demand and Klaus‘ advanced age of course. This happened well 4 years ago, so the success of this step is well proven meanwhile. :wink:
Scheller looks like Sloane in some ways, any info on the Scheller's price?
To send light into the darkness of men's heart, such is the duty of the artist. (Robert Schumann)

es335
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Re: Machine heads

Post by es335 » Tue May 15, 2018 8:08 pm

Reischel tuners had been the template for Klaus Scheller. The actual price depends on the final outfit but is higher than Sloanes. Here in Germany they start at about 450€ which is not small but worth any cent once you realized their superior performance and pure elegance.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Machine heads

Post by Michael.N. » Tue May 15, 2018 8:54 pm

How do they actually perform better? Always seems a little odd to me given that the tuning ratio is the same (or similar) and the fact that I can't detect any meaningful backlash on certain other tuners. Perhaps you mean less friction when turning the buttons?
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petermc61
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Re: Machine heads

Post by petermc61 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:06 am

Michael.N. wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:54 pm
How do they actually perform better? Always seems a little odd to me given that the tuning ratio is the same (or similar) and the fact that I can't detect any meaningful backlash on certain other tuners. Perhaps you mean less friction when turning the buttons?
Michael

Find a guitar with a set installed and have a play. You might know what we are referring to then. They have a wonderfully smooth and precise feel. Purely subjective. But nice.

Peter

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Michael.N.
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Re: Machine heads

Post by Michael.N. » Wed May 16, 2018 7:56 am

I'm sure they do. That refers to friction or rather a bit less of it compared to other tuners. Of course some people may value that. It doesn't mean that they result in more precise tuning though. I'm just trying to be clear about what we are referring to when we use words such as 'the best' and 'superior'.
Historicalguitars.

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riemsesy
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Re: Machine heads

Post by riemsesy » Wed May 16, 2018 8:08 am

There is of course the quality of the used materials
then there is what meets the eye
Any tuner that has no slack, turns smoothly has, doesn't rewind is a good tuner, isn't it?
Best regards, Richard Frank
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es335
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Re: Machine heads

Post by es335 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:48 am

In his former professional career Klaus Scheller was a mechanics engineer operating a precision mechanics business specialised on the manufacturing of gear and gearwheels. Can’t recall in detail what is actually special about his gears but remember that he claimed having solved some weaknesses he figuered out in present tuner gear designs with his profound expertise in this field.

Not claiming other tuners will not do the job more or less sufficiently and must admit that I do admire the art and craft of Rodgers tuners but it’s always an enjoyment to operate the Scheller tuners. :D

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riemsesy
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Re: Machine heads

Post by riemsesy » Wed May 16, 2018 10:02 am

es335 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:48 am
Not claiming other tuners will not do the job more or less sufficiently and must admit that I do admire the art and craft of Rodgers tuners but it’s always an enjoyment to operate the Scheller tuners. :D
I guess you just like to turn the knobs, don't you? :)
Best regards, Richard Frank
-Yamaha GC22s
-Raimundo 128c

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petermc61
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Re: Machine heads

Post by petermc61 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:53 am

Michael.N. wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:56 am
I'm sure they do. That refers to friction or rather a bit less of it compared to other tuners. Of course some people may value that. It doesn't mean that they result in more precise tuning though. I'm just trying to be clear about what we are referring to when we use words such as 'the best' and 'superior'.
Michael

Almost any tuner can get a string in tune. That might be OK for you.

I don’t need to define my subjective experience of using them in terms of friction, backlash or anything else that you might think important. They have a smoothness and precision I have not experienced before and are a delight to use. That’s absolutely subjective. I’m happy with that.

Peter

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Machine heads

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed May 16, 2018 11:00 am

I have several guitars equipped with different tuners. They all achieve their aim very well, nevertheless every tuner has a distinguished feel when you start turning them; a specific resistance and a feeling of more or less direct contact to the string. E.g. with Rodgers it's very immediate. With Gilbert, although it turns very precisely with no backlash or play, the contact with the string appears very little. It's almost like as if the knob was just an electronic controller telling the string what to do, and it does... (exaggerated to make the point).
Scheller tuners are more like Rodgers, and more elegantly so.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...
My Youtube Channel is: TheMusicalEvents

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