Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Stephen Faulk
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Stephen Faulk » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:05 am

Deleted
Last edited by Stephen Faulk on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

gjo
Posts: 329
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Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by gjo » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:22 am

Thank you very much for your long and elaborated explanation about long and short chain molecules and their importance in the process of torrefication.

I am probably one of those ignorant persons you not very nicely refer to. My approach is more pragmatic (and guided by experience as well) and I like to ask "What is it good for?", so my basic question simply is:

- Which direct consequences has a torrefied top for the sound of a guitar?

- Or why else should we use torrefied material in building a guitar if not for the sound?

In the past I made a few guitars with "heat-treated" spruce that I bought from a sawmill or had commercially treated by a company where I sent my tops to. All I can say from my experiences is "I do not like it!", I did not like to work with it, it took some time until I found the right glue, dents and dings during the building process could not be dampened out (I did find out the hard way), it was rather prone to cracking (as I did experience with a guitar I made and that came back) - I did not like it. Soundwise the guitars already had some sort of an "aged" sound (not bad I have to admit) but not very much potential for further development in sound as a spruce top usually has - again I did not like it. It looked phantastic under shellac - that's what I liked very much!

Finally I decided not to go on with it, and my decision was guided by my personal experience and not by the knowledge about short and long chain molecules.

So, please be careful in your anger, there might be more aspects beyond science! Thank you.

@ Grenner: There is a company in Austria where you can send your tops for treatment.

Echi
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:14 pm

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Echi » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:25 am

Assuming you are right, I see no point anyway in bringing here the arguments you had with a specific guitarmaker in a different forum.
Saying I'm not entirely convinced is a rhetorical device to express different things, such as skepticism
Btw, If you are skeptical, you don’t believe in something.

grenner
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Location: Vienna; AUSTRIA

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by grenner » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:35 am

gjo wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:22 am


@ Grenner: There is a company in Austria where you can send your tops for treatment.
Interesting. What company is this?

gjo
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:48 am

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by gjo » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:54 am

grenner wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:35 am
gjo wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:22 am


@ Grenner: There is a company in Austria where you can send your tops for treatment.
Interesting. What company is this?
PM sent

Stephen Faulk
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Stephen Faulk » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:42 am

Deleted
Last edited by Stephen Faulk on Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Stephen Faulk
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Stephen Faulk » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:46 am

Deleted
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

madrilla
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:50 pm

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by madrilla » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:45 pm

What about torrefiction on cedar or the back & sides woods. Would that make an even more open sound?

grenner
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:34 am
Location: Vienna; AUSTRIA

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by grenner » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:48 pm

gjo wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:54 am
grenner wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:35 am
gjo wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:22 am


@ Grenner: There is a company in Austria where you can send your tops for treatment.
Interesting. What company is this?
PM sent
Thank you

hanredman
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:00 am
Location: Abingdon Virginia USA

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by hanredman » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:22 pm

I have "cooked" a few Lutz spruce tips upon recommendation by the late Mario Dacosta. It entails leaving the top halves in the domestic oven for 2 hours at 220*F. I am sure it did help to dry out the wood more, but I did find the wood to be more brittle than normal, as well as showing every little dent and Nick in detail during and after the building process.
Joseph Redman
Amateur Guitar Builder

Wuuthrad
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Location: USA

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Wuuthrad » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:05 am

Well I enjoyed Stephen Faulk's posts even though I may not have agreed with everything he said. But why delete them? I don't know much about the science of this and I found them quite interesting and informative.

I certainly don't need any scientific explanation to know that drying wood makes it more brittle, having aged and burned a bit of firewood.

I do wonder if this shortcut to aging wood in an oven might shorten the lifespan of an instrument though.

The "Test of Time" so to speak...

I am doubtful!
"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." -Jean Sibelius

Stephen Faulk
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Stephen Faulk » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:29 am

People quoted me out of context and didn't understand why I was expressing frustration about being misunderstood. Then quoted me out of context from a thread I started last year, and that thread was taken very defensively by many people .....I just didn't need the flack.

If you are interested in the information I may try again, but I'm trying to contact friends who are scientists to help my gather more information. The posts I made cane with the disclaimer that I was not expressing anger no and frustration at this forum, but that I had difficulty somewhere else. Some people aren't empthetic to strangers who are expressing frustration an see it as someone who is bad. I don't need that.
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Wuuthrad
Posts: 990
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:16 pm
Location: USA

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Wuuthrad » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:53 am

"Grains of salt?" I presume? Thanks 🙏
"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." -Jean Sibelius

Echi
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:14 pm

Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by Echi » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:06 am

Stephen, I for one always read with interest your posts for many reasons: the content, the style and your humor.
In this case I found your post very informative also.
My suggestion to avoid recalling here old conflicts (right or wrong is soon forgotten in these forums) is just in your own interest. Obviously these are just my 2 cents.

simonm
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Re: Homemade Torrefication of spruce tops

Post by simonm » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:33 am

I for one, would love to see some articles looking at what exactly torrification does to tone wood apart from changing the colour. Unfortunately all my searches on the net about the process just turn up discussions about its use in bio-mass treatment.

A few months back we bought a board of torrified bamboo which we used for a bathroom shelf. Quite amazing material which was being sold for decking. Nobody we showed it to was able to identify it as bamboo. Density was higher than ebony which is amazing for a bamboo product.

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