Top quality woods and constrution,..and a poor sound!!???

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Milumilu

Top quality woods and constrution,..and a poor sound!!???

Post by Milumilu » Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:53 pm

Hello everyone..!Your kind help please..
I never owned a true CG,like Ramirez,Contreras,but i did played with some before,..i dont have the money to buy them,so i took a chance on a CG less expensive and 3 mounths ago I bought a taiwan made classical guitar
Well,..my question is,the guitar has very little sound volume and projection...
The woods are top quality,so is construction,..
SO..Why does my guitar sound so weak??What can be the cause for this?
i did lowered a little the bone bridge,about 1,5 mm,..it was too hight when it came,but nothing else,new strings,..thanks for any reply!
Last edited by Milumilu on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

Pepe Vergara

Post by Pepe Vergara » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:06 pm

In general, if it is too good to be true, it probably is. Second, you get what you pay for. Third, I do not get it. Combining mahogany in a classical with a German spruce, and a rosewood fretboard? It sounds too good to be true. So, your top may not be what they say it is. The picture on the webside of th e link seems to be Indian rosewood, but they advertise on the side: mahogany. I do not know what else to say.

That being said, Fleta is one of the most difficult guitars to make sound right or to copy right, yes even for experts in copying things around.

Milumilu

Post by Milumilu » Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:21 pm

thanks for answering,..i was more asking what might be causing the weak sound of the guitar,the materials used are genuine woods,its all solid spruce,apart the sound the instrument is beautifully crafted,not a single flaw,..but,..anyway

thank you very much!
Last edited by Milumilu on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Frederich Holtier

Post by Frederich Holtier » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:59 am

1) Using top quality wood for making a guitar does not mean necessarily that the guitar will be good.
2) I suspect that the weak sound of your guitar is due to a very stiff soundboard probably overbraced.
3) It is a shame to see how much good wood is wasted in cheap mas produced musical instruments.
Frederich

Azalais

Post by Azalais » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:27 am

This is what I read on the link you provided:
Body Top: S.Spruce or S.Red Cedar (Doesn't say if it is solid or laminated...???)
Body Side: Solid Mahogany (not sure that's what's in the picture?)
Body Back: Solid Mahogany (not sure that's what's in the picture?)
Neck: 3 pcs Nayto w/Rosewood Center (strip)
Binding: Rosewood
Nut: Bone
Fingerboard: Rosewood
Bridge: Rosewood

These materials are typically used for student guitars, and can sound quite good if the top thickness, bracing and finish aren't too stiff and heavy. If it is comfortable to play and you are making progress with your playing, the sound will begin to improve over time... If you have noticed braces that may have become UNGLUED... that could be a more serious "problem"... Can you ask a teacher about it, or take it back to the store where you bought it, and have them look at it?

Milumilu

Post by Milumilu » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:57 pm

thanks for all kind..if you could take a look at the instrument and see it in hands,..i´m no luthier at all,..believe its looks like a good quality made instrument realy,..
Last edited by Milumilu on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Azalais

Post by Azalais » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:43 pm

Often the tail ends of the braces do NOT touch... to allow for flexibility... so the top to can vibrate properly. What you see is probably the way they were designed to be. As long as they are glued solidly they are probably OK.

When you look inside with the mirror (not near the sound hole), can you tell if the grain lines on the top are the same on both sides (inside and outside)? I won't discuss costs or politics either... but I will mention that some guitars are designed to be less fragile than others. Young students can be very careless with their guitars, so some of these models are built more for strength and durability than lightness and dynamics... (In fact, it may have a laminated top, which could affect the sound) If you have other older, lighter guitars, this one may naturally seem to have less volume compared to some of those...

User avatar
freestroke
Posts: 1588
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:20 pm
Location: Rome, New York

Post by freestroke » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:59 pm

Check out the "Kohnosan sings again" thread. You say you messed with the saddle bone? Well, that's what my problem was!
Hell is full of amateur musicians -- GB Shaw

Francis

Post by Francis » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:26 pm

I read a lot this forum, but write a little. I have noticed that several new members usually apologizing for their English are trying to bring attention to guitars made in China. Starting with problems, but later on admitting that they are the best guitars. Could it be that we have new members that are factory onwers in China? Just a curiosity. I hope this comment does not bother anyone.

Milumilu

Post by Milumilu » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:51 pm

Not at all,..,when i need to ask a question,i try to make it clear,in a luthier perspective vocab,..that i´m not..
i just come here looking for some insight about the very subject i´m posting about,Thanks!
Last edited by Milumilu on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Milumilu

Post by Milumilu » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:21 pm

.."can you tell if the grain lines on the top are the same on both sides (inside and outside)? "..COTE...

YEs, ,placed the mirror,scratch it with hands,looked mirror glass to the round border of the soundhole,asked a furniture pro,..i can assure that its a solid piece of spruce wood on all top...

I think,...After reading the adviced post from mr. freestroke :wink: (Thanks!!)that i might have found a strong reason for all this,..,..the bone NUt it is not totally engraved in its bridge hole,..its not making full contact with the bridge wood as i now know it should.
it came with a deeper round hole where they sliced it and at the bottom theres some considerable space left in between...

I´m going to get this fixed right and see if it gets any better,..

P.S. I have no single doubt that a luthier madeCG is forever a better instrument,a real piece of art,a life time investement,..well as long as properly built ,than any stock factory ones, ..i just took the chance on this of mine because its has very good quality constrution and materials for the price paid,..still,..it wasn´t that cheap..

Thanks again you all!
Last edited by Milumilu on Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sasquatch51

Post by Sasquatch51 » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:40 pm

You might try some different strings, too. Maybe the strings aren't moving the top well.....

Also, if the top is solid spruce, it will open up and improve somewhat over time.

User avatar
freestroke
Posts: 1588
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:20 pm
Location: Rome, New York

Post by freestroke » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:24 pm

Milumilu wrote:thanks for reply,.. :)
.
....
I think,...After reading the adviced post from mr. freestroke :wink: (Thanks!!)that i might have found a strong reason for all this,..,..the bone NUt it is not totally engraved in its bridge hole,..its not making full contact with the bridge wood as i now know it should.
it came with a deeper round hole where they sliced it and at the bottom theres some considerable space left in between...

I´m going to get this fixed right and see if it gets any better,..
Looks like you read Nate's repair job. :D Neat, huh?

Let us know how it turns out. :D
Hell is full of amateur musicians -- GB Shaw

Milumilu

Post by Milumilu » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:23 pm

Yes,looks like they´re good...hope mine´s as lucky as yours,full sound living :D

I knew there was that litlle imperfection on the bridge slot,but didnt realize that could damp so much sound for the top to vibrate properly...
It makes sense,most of energy from the string is sent to the top from there..

,the bridge slot where the bone nut sits has a funny shape,..its "round" at the bottom end(!???..),..like it was drilled,not cut,..strange...anyway

Thanks all!
keep up this great site!All my respect!

jet_awesome

Post by jet_awesome » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:33 am

I was in the market for a guitar awhile back and I was looking at a yamaha cg201, which has similar woods as yours did. Mohagany sides and back, spruce top, nato neck, and an ebony fretboard, (all solid). I played it and noticed that it too was quiet and subdued. Maybe it is because of the mohagany woods used, I wonder. I eventually settled on a Cordoba Pro-R.
That one is also all solid, but instead of mohagany sides and back, it uses Indian rosewood. I noticed a remarkable difference. Does anyone else think it may be the mohagony woods that causes the lack of projection?

Return to “Luthiers”