Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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Steve Ganz
Luthier
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by Steve Ganz » Wed May 08, 2019 5:52 pm

I have some personal experience looking inside Thibault Cauvin's Joie in my shop (when he stayed at my place) about 2006 give or take a year. No typical braces. The inside of the top was covered with a fabric, possibly silk, saturated with a resin or glue. The guitar may have been a prototype, I don't know about the maturity of the design and use of materials. I recall that much more of the top was covered in the fabric than the oval patch shown in other pictures.

I know that years before I had already built a guitar with no braces. My friend a local luthier Dake had done that years before me.

As to the sound of Tibo's guitar, I'd say it was pretty dry, not super loud, but certainly loud enough. Tibo needs a guitar that has excellent articulation and I think this guitar fit the bill for him at the time. I like the sound better than the smallman that I have heard him play other times. Sound preference is a matter of taste and conditioning for the listener.
Steve

Echi
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by Echi » Fri May 10, 2019 8:39 am

this pic appeared in the French Delcamp.
I assume it's public and there is no problem to post it here.
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ben etow
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by ben etow » Sat May 11, 2019 8:46 am

Hi All,
This JLJm3 pic shows the top from inside a 2008 Alma model (cedar), similarly made in some ways but not entirely like Thibault's 2006 concert model Joie. I tried both Thibault's guitar and several (cedar) Alma models and there was a significantly difference as to tone the Alma being much mellower/darker and less powerful), partly because of the top finish (PU/shellack) and the spruce/cedar differences.

Thibault's guitar sounded clear and precise as requested (I ordered a spruce 630 concert model I got in 2008 and it sounded mellower than Thibault's, as requested).

But the top design evolved a lot since this period. My cedar 2015 630 concert model sounded even better.
And now I'm waiting for my new spruce 630 (possibly July).

ivan
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by ivan » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:40 pm

Almost ready!
I will post my impression here after i receive this guitar in the next few weeks.
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ivan
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by ivan » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:42 pm

One more!
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mlau
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by mlau » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:26 pm

wrapping my head around this.

Looks like a top with a Nomex bridge plate and carbon lattice...almost Kohno like.
I can imagine how this would sound very even and neutral, with good power.

ivan
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by ivan » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:19 am

mlau wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:26 pm
wrapping my head around this.

Looks like a top with a Nomex bridge plate and carbon lattice...almost Kohno like.
I can imagine how this would sound very even and neutral, with good power.
But the sound is not typical of DT or Lattice carbon guitars. There is no hollow / honky sound. It sounds warm and sweet just like a normal solid wood guitar, but with superb balance / evenness.

ben etow
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by ben etow » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:26 am

mlau wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:26 pm
wrapping my head around this.

Looks like a top with a Nomex bridge plate and carbon lattice...almost Kohno like.
I can't understand how or why you can imagine that - seeing a few pics ???

Jean-Luc Joie has a proprietary system. Nothing to do with lattice or DT. IMHO (in some cases much) better than and different from all DT's and (carbon or all-wood) lattice guitars I tried. I've got three of the at home (my one has one and me two).

MessyTendon
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by MessyTendon » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:38 pm

Love it. Somebody gets it...if you want to make the upper frets more accessible you don't raise the fingerboard, you recess the heel entirely...why is it so hard to grasp this stupid simple concept?

God bless this man.

Elman Concepcion
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by Elman Concepcion » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:54 pm

MessyTendon wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:38 pm
Love it. Somebody gets it...if you want to make the upper frets more accessible you don't raise the fingerboard, you recess the heel entirely...why is it so hard to grasp this stupid simple concept?

God bless this man.
Removing the heal does not improve upper fret accessibility.
In fact it makes it more difficult as there is no smooth transition between the neck and the ribs.
The heal provides the Thumb and Hand a natural pivot toward the twelfth fret.

MessyTendon
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by MessyTendon » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:22 pm

Respectfully disagree. The pivot of a heel is not natural to me. But of course I doubt you have thumbs like me. I've got the biggest stubbiest hitch hiker thumbs you ever did see...

Many modern makers are utilizing a flat heel. The design with the recessed heel is round well enough and the pivot you speak of is achieved by well wresting the thumb on the sides...same effect.

I do understand your logic and it does make sense to a great degree, but I don't think the design we are shown in the photo is much different than what you speak of.

Lot's of modern designers aren't recessing the heel but are putting the heel flat on the sides of the guitar with a very slight rise...square and flat, I like that design to...But nobody can deny curves are beautiful :) Heels look good. hahah no pun intended.

Elman Concepcion
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by Elman Concepcion » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:21 pm

You said: "The design with the recessed heel is round well enough and the pivot you speak of is achieved by well wresting the thumb on the sides...same effect."
Not the same effect at all. It is awkward because it does not provide a transition toward the 12th fret.

It just stops.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Ask players what they think and you will find almost universal agreement that the heal is integral to a smooth transition between the neck and the twelfth fret.

Stephen Faulk
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by Stephen Faulk » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:08 am

It’s like a cello, you need the heel to make the transition over the rim of the upper bout.

I’ve made one heeless like this and heeless with a cutaway and I consider it a bad mistake of design. But of course someone will want one. Guitarists should study with cellists to learn how to climb over the fingerboard, it’s essentially the same technique on both instruments, save for the neck angle to your body.

Cutaways and elevated neck have advantages too, but the heel is a nice piece of geography to reference when moving over the rib.

Personally I feel the guitar played past the 14th fret is annoying anyway. The meat is in the midrange. :shock: :shock: :lol:
Patience at the bending iron pays in rounded dividends!

Guero
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by Guero » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:42 am

I slowly come to the point to believe in a conspiracy of keeping CG players as dumb as we already are :D .
Just call it tradition...

ben etow
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Re: Jean-Luc Joie wins award for innovation achievements

Post by ben etow » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:22 am

Elman Concepcion wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:21 pm
You said: "The design with the recessed heel is round well enough and the pivot you speak of is achieved by well wresting the thumb on the sides...same effect."
Not the same effect at all. It is awkward because it does not provide a transition toward the 12th fret.

It just stops.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Ask players what they think and you will find almost universal agreement that the heal is integral to a smooth transition between the neck and the twelfth fret.
I have to intervene here as I already had two heelless Joie (1996 and 2001, the latter in attachment).
IMG_1954 low2.jpg
Joie 2001 heelless cut.png
For me (small and rather fat hands), the playability is better from the 12th fret on.
And the elevated fingerboard (Humphrey and others) were not easier for me...
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