acting on action

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
pradtf

acting on action

Post by pradtf » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:19 pm

i'm curious as to how action is altered precisely.
seems to me that one has a situation as crudely shown below:

nut ------------------------|------------------------saddle
(the '|' marks the 12th fret position)

now the 12th fret being the octave divides the string into 2 equal portions, so you have the makings of 2 similar triangles (one from the nut to the 12th fret and one from the nut to the saddle that is double the proportions). so whatever you do to raise or lower at the saddle, the height changes at the 12th fret by half that amount.

so if i want to raise the strings at the 12th fret by 1mm, i have to get a saddle that is 2mm higher.

is this how it is done or is there another way?
i would think it would take a terribly long time if one were to do it by trial and error?

Ramirez 1a Rio

Post by Ramirez 1a Rio » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:01 pm

You are right, that is the way! Also it is very important to keep the lower side of the "Steg" absolutly flat. Also the wood in the slot of the Bridge. That influences the Diskant tremendously!

With practice this all is done easily an within half an hour. :wink:

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James Lister
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Post by James Lister » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:53 am

Yes, but be careful. It's easy to reduce the action, but harder to increase it if you go to far. You can use shims, but it's not really advisable. If the action goes too low, you really should fit a new saddle.

Also, you should set the height of the nut first - there's a post about this somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

pradtf

Post by pradtf » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:34 pm

thanks to both of you.

what is the 'steg'? i couldn't find it in wikipedia's article on guitar parts.

also i noted that the saddle slopes down towards the 1st string which combined with the lesser thickness of that string brings it closer to the fret than the 6th string.

is this because the lower strings being at a lesser tension are easier to press down on and so the higher tension strings are therefore kept closer to the frets?
also, the thicker strings may need more room to vibrate possibly?

Ramirez 1a Rio

Post by Ramirez 1a Rio » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:33 pm

Saddle is equal to "Steg". (Edit: And Nut is equal to "Sattel")

Try to achive a hight of 4-5mm at low E, at the twelves Fret and 3-4mm at high E. :wink:

It is better as jmdlister allready said to try once more than to reduce the hight to much.

:roll:
Last edited by Ramirez 1a Rio on Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sasquatch51

Post by Sasquatch51 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:02 pm

Ramirez 1a Rio wrote:Nut is equal to Steg. Try to achive a hight of 4-5mm at low E, at the twelves Fret and 3-4mm at high E. :wink:

It is better as jmdlister allready said to try once more than to reduce the hight to much.

:roll:
You're confusing me. The nut is the part (usually bone) that the strings pass over at the headstock. The saddle is the part(also usually bone) that the strings pass over at the bridge. Which one are you calling a Steg? James is talking about reducing the height of the bridge saddle to adjust the "Action" (string height).

Ramirez 1a Rio

Post by Ramirez 1a Rio » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Thank you sasquatch51,

seems I am confused too. We call the bone piece at the Bridge "Steg" and the bone piece at the headstock is called "Sattel", means Saddle in english.

Is Saddle in english the same as Steg in Germany? And Sattel in German the same as Nut in english?

:roll:

Pepe Vergara

Post by Pepe Vergara » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:26 pm

I am so confused that I am going nuts. Because of that, I will go for some action, take my horse for a ride over the bridge, put the saddle on, and give a bone to my dog so he stops barking while I am trying to get on my saddle. My saddle is not made of bone, it is made of leather. :(

Sasquatch51

Post by Sasquatch51 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:32 pm

Ramirez 1a Rio wrote:Thank you sasquatch51,

seems I am confused too. We call the bone piece at the Bridge "Steg" and the bone piece at the headstock is called "Sattel", means Saddle in english.

Is Saddle in english the same as Steg in Germany? And Sattel in German the same as Nut in english?

:roll:
OK...we can then start a Deutsch-English, English-Deutsch Guitar words Dictionary.

First entries:

English-Deutsch

Saddle (n) Steg
Nut (n) Sattel

Deutsch-English

Steg (n) Saddle
Satttel (n) Nut

:)

Sasquatch51

Post by Sasquatch51 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:33 pm

pepe wrote:I am so confused that I am going nuts. Because of that, I will go for some action, take my horse for a ride over the bridge, put the saddle on, and give a bone to my dog so he stops barking while I am trying to get on my saddle. My saddle is not made of bone, it is made of leather. :(
Don't try to sattel me with your problems, you nut! :grire:

Ramirez 1a Rio

Post by Ramirez 1a Rio » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:02 pm

:roll: :( :cry: :? :wink: :) :lol: :D :wink:

Pepe, he just said you are a Nut! 8)
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James Lister
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Post by James Lister » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:07 am

pradtf wrote: also i noted that the saddle slopes down towards the 1st string which combined with the lesser thickness of that string brings it closer to the fret than the 6th string.

is this because the lower strings being at a lesser tension are easier to press down on and so the higher tension strings are therefore kept closer to the frets?
also, the thicker strings may need more room to vibrate possibly?
Yes, it's because the thicker bass strings need more room to vibrate.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

pradtf

Post by pradtf » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:05 pm

Ramirez 1a Rio wrote:Pepe, he just said you are a Nut! 8)
perhaps he was thinking of pepestachios? :idea:
nut to fret for those diagrams are most helpful in clearing up this misunderstanding that arosette.

thanks also james.

Derry

Post by Derry » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:46 am

what we don't all learn on this wonderful web site,, LOL,, :lol:

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