Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
oc chuck
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by oc chuck » Tue May 07, 2019 6:15 am

I have posted this in the Guitar accessories and luthier supplies for sale forum.
Maybe have a wider audience here.

I would like to repair or replace these tuners from
a '69 Kohno guitar. 39 mm spacing.

If someone has parts (2 gears), old set for parts
or a treble side I'd be interested in buying.

The gears are smaller than I can find today.

I have a new set of Gotoh's for now, but would like
to go with the original look.
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powermrk
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by powermrk » Sat May 11, 2019 2:39 am

quixilver wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 5:16 am
Despite all the debates around, I believe this is a valid statement. I have met Masaki Sakurai few times and had some conversations about his guitars in the past, and he kept emphasizing that he categorizes the model numbers based on the wood and materials he uses for the guitar. Higher numbers get the more expensive and better looking woods, tuners, decorations, sexier and more eye-catching 50+ years old Jacaranda etc etc... Mostly are aesthetic related stuff and do not have any specific correlation of how the guitars would sound better.

Hence, there are chances of getting a guitar with lower number which sounds better than the much higher numbers. I have listened and tried a Masaru Kohno 20 which sounds fantastic and is definitely capable to surpass some other Kohno/Sakurai either 50, Special, Maestro, you name it... in terms of tonal quality. Even for the same model, out of more than ten guitars of Special, PC and Maestro models I had tried, they were all different. Some of them were just okay, some of them were sub-par and a few of them were outstanding.
Don't tend to start a new war :D , if your statements are true, it is at least hence:

1) The qualities of Kohno/Sakurai guitars aren't consistent

2) Other than the eye-catching, wood quality should play an important role in guitars' tonal qualities, especially those more expensive and older woods (no matter of for tops or Back and sides) ... but not in the case of Kohno/Sakurai guitars

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rinneby
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by rinneby » Sat May 11, 2019 5:27 am

powermrk wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 2:39 am
Don't tend to start a new war :D , if your statements are true, it is at least hence:

1) The qualities of Kohno/Sakurai guitars aren't consistent

2) Other than the eye-catching, wood quality should play an important role in guitars' tonal qualities, especially those more expensive and older woods (no matter of for tops or Back and sides) ... but not in the case of Kohno/Sakurai guitars
1. No luthier or company is 100% consistent. There are good Ramirez and bad ones, good Daniel Friederich guitars and not so good ones. And this is without taking the tide of time into account. Some are stored in a proper way, most are not. With that said, Kohno and Sakurai are very consistent guitars.

2. Wood does play some part of course. But again, great guitars can be built with cheaper woods and bad guitars can be built with "good" woods. There is absolutely no way of knowing without trying a guitar. Just because some woods looks good on paper, or to the eye for that matter, doesn't mean it's a better tone wood for that particular build.

/J
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1973 - Masaru Matano Classe 600
2016 - Pete Beer

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

powermrk
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by powermrk » Sat May 11, 2019 7:26 am

I agree that good guitars can be built by cheap woods. But in general, woods especially good quality top woods contribute not only a better look, but also affect the tone in good way.

quixilver
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by quixilver » Sat May 11, 2019 9:36 am

powermrk wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 2:39 am
Don't tend to start a new war :D , if your statements are true, it is at least hence:

1) The qualities of Kohno/Sakurai guitars aren't consistent

2) Other than the eye-catching, wood quality should play an important role in guitars' tonal qualities, especially those more expensive and older woods (no matter of for tops or Back and sides) ... but not in the case of Kohno/Sakurai guitars
1. The quality of handmade items, especially guitars will never hit 100% mark in consistency. Technically, two pieces of wood cut from the same tree may not have the same properties - i.e. density, stiffness, etc. As the label says, each guitar is made by Sakurai/Kohno Guitar “Manufacturing” (not by a single and only luthier). I don’t have the exact information but there are most likely more than three luthiers working under the supervision of Sakurai-san himself. Here, consistency is calculated more towards quantitative measures and numbers instead of the representation of tonal quality.

2. Talking about wood quality, we all know wood grading system by wood suppliers is predominantly based on the physical appearance - i.e. color evenness, grain lines per inch, uniformity, etc. Hence, these are the main factors to determine the price of different wood grades. OTOH, luthiers have different criteria to measure wood quality, looks are “unfortunately” not the priority, they know some other values more than meets the eye. More expensive woods tend to have better look but it doesn’t guarantee the intrinsic quality to produce better sound.
"After food, air and water, classical guitar is the next necessity of life."

1988 Kazuo Sato | 2005 Tobias Berg | 2007 Rolf Eichinger | 2014 Alexandru Marian | 2015 Christoph Sembdner | 2015 Antonio Raya Ferrer | 2016 Masaki Sakurai P.C.

es335
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by es335 » Sat May 11, 2019 10:02 am

powermrk wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:26 am
I agree that good guitars can be built by cheap woods. But in general, woods especially good quality top woods contribute not only a better look, but also affect the tone in good way.
Just one counterexample. The best sounding guitar in my limited experience was a Rohe guitar having a spruce top with wide and not even straight vertical grain one would typically expect in a student level guitar. :wink:

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rinneby
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by rinneby » Sat May 11, 2019 12:39 pm

es335 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:02 am
powermrk wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:26 am
I agree that good guitars can be built by cheap woods. But in general, woods especially good quality top woods contribute not only a better look, but also affect the tone in good way.
Just one counterexample. The best sounding guitar in my limited experience was a Rohe guitar having a spruce top with wide and not even straight vertical grain one would typically expect in a student level guitar. :wink:
Indeed, exactly my point as well.

/J
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1973 - Masaru Matano Classe 600
2016 - Pete Beer

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

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eno
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by eno » Sat May 11, 2019 5:55 pm

oc chuck wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:15 am
I have posted this in the Guitar accessories and luthier supplies for sale forum.
Maybe have a wider audience here.

I would like to repair or replace these tuners from
a '69 Kohno guitar. 39 mm spacing.

If someone has parts (2 gears), old set for parts
or a treble side I'd be interested in buying.

The gears are smaller than I can find today.

I have a new set of Gotoh's for now, but would like
to go with the original look.
I have extra brand new ones, I bought them for my Kohno 1967 but then decided to keep the original ones. Send me an IM if you are interested.
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Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Takamine C136S 1976
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967

oc chuck
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by oc chuck » Sat May 11, 2019 10:46 pm

eno wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 5:55 pm
oc chuck wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:15 am
I have posted this in the Guitar accessories and luthier supplies for sale forum.
Maybe have a wider audience here.

I would like to repair or replace these tuners from
a '69 Kohno guitar. 39 mm spacing.

If someone has parts (2 gears), old set for parts
or a treble side I'd be interested in buying.

The gears are smaller than I can find today.

I have a new set of Gotoh's for now, but would like
to go with the original look.
I have extra brand new ones, I bought them for my Kohno 1967 but then decided to keep the original ones. Send me an IM if you are interested.
Thanks eno, I have a new set of Gotoh's that work well.
I hope to go back to the "antique" look.
( Guess that makes me an antique also)

Nitsuga Uriarte
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by Nitsuga Uriarte » Tue May 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Hello everyone,

I apologize if this isn’t in the right place or has been addressed already. I would like to purchase a Sakurai “excellent” model but I cannot find any information on Sakurai’s old lineup of guitars. I assume it is part of the same lineup as the “standard” model.

On Sakurai’s website there is no mention of his older models. Can anyone help me get the specs/pricing on the “excellent” model? Please and thank you.
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quixilver
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by quixilver » Wed May 15, 2019 5:04 am

Nitsuga Uriarte wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:44 pm
Hello everyone,

I apologize if this isn’t in the right place or has been addressed already. I would like to purchase a Sakurai “excellent” model but I cannot find any information on Sakurai’s old lineup of guitars. I assume it is part of the same lineup as the “standard” model.

On Sakurai’s website there is no mention of his older models. Can anyone help me get the specs/pricing on the “excellent” model? Please and thank you.
If my memory works well, the "Standard" and "Excellent" model lineup was used by Masaki Sakurai back in 80s to 90s, and has been changed/discontinued since the late 90s or slightly after. The Standard model featured solid Spruce/Cedar top and Indian Rosewood body, while the Excellent model might have the back and sides made of Jacaranda - I've seen both Indian Rosewood and Jacaranda used for Excellent model.

You can definitely take a look the "Concert R" or "Concert J" model from the current lineup, which can be considered as the successors.
"After food, air and water, classical guitar is the next necessity of life."

1988 Kazuo Sato | 2005 Tobias Berg | 2007 Rolf Eichinger | 2014 Alexandru Marian | 2015 Christoph Sembdner | 2015 Antonio Raya Ferrer | 2016 Masaki Sakurai P.C.

Nitsuga Uriarte
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Location: Miami Florida

Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by Nitsuga Uriarte » Wed May 15, 2019 8:26 pm

quixilver wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:04 am
Nitsuga Uriarte wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:44 pm
Hello everyone,

I apologize if this isn’t in the right place or has been addressed already. I would like to purchase a Sakurai “excellent” model but I cannot find any information on Sakurai’s old lineup of guitars. I assume it is part of the same lineup as the “standard” model.

On Sakurai’s website there is no mention of his older models. Can anyone help me get the specs/pricing on the “excellent” model? Please and thank you.
If my memory works well, the "Standard" and "Excellent" model lineup was used by Masaki Sakurai back in 80s to 90s, and has been changed/discontinued since the late 90s or slightly after. The Standard model featured solid Spruce/Cedar top and Indian Rosewood body, while the Excellent model might have the back and sides made of Jacaranda - I've seen both Indian Rosewood and Jacaranda used for Excellent model.

You can definitely take a look the "Concert R" or "Concert J" model from the current lineup, which can be considered as the successors.
Thanks! That was helpful!
2018 Glez Sp/Cy
2010 Concepción CD/IR
2002 Yairi CY 140 CD/BRW
Yamaha NCX1200R SP/IR

Nitsuga Uriarte
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Location: Miami Florida

Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by Nitsuga Uriarte » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:43 am

Hello again everyone. I’ve recently played a Sakurai No. 10 from 1981 and an “excellent” from 1994. Both guitars were missing the double ebony reinforcement strips in the back. Did Sakurai sometimes not add the ebony strips to his guitars? Or was this something that a customer would’ve had to pay extra for when purchasing or commissioning the guitar and decided to leave it out? I just want to make sure that they are not fakes.

-Tom
2018 Glez Sp/Cy
2010 Concepción CD/IR
2002 Yairi CY 140 CD/BRW
Yamaha NCX1200R SP/IR

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rinneby
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Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by rinneby » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:50 am

Nitsuga Uriarte wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:43 am
Hello again everyone. I’ve recently played a Sakurai No. 10 from 1981 and an “excellent” from 1994. Both guitars were missing the double ebony reinforcement strips in the back. Did Sakurai sometimes not add the ebony strips to his guitars? Or was this something that a customer would’ve had to pay extra for when purchasing or commissioning the guitar and decided to leave it out? I just want to make sure that they are not fakes.

-Tom
Yes, I've seen many Sakurai's from the 80s and 90s without the double reinforcements strips. Nothing to worry about, it is very unlikely that they are fakes. The best way to tell if they are real, is looking at the head shape and rosette and compare with other Sakurai's.

Kind regards
/Jon
1964 - Masaru Kohno No.7
1973 - Masaru Matano Classe 600
2016 - Pete Beer

Feel free to ask me anything about Japanese classical guitars.

Nitsuga Uriarte
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:39 pm
Location: Miami Florida

Re: Kohno & - Sakurai Guitar Fan Club, Delcamp branch

Post by Nitsuga Uriarte » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:35 am

Thanks!
2018 Glez Sp/Cy
2010 Concepción CD/IR
2002 Yairi CY 140 CD/BRW
Yamaha NCX1200R SP/IR

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