D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

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CarlWestman
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Feedback for Rick

Post by CarlWestman » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:08 am

Rick,

It's always a joy to hear you play. It's funny that Haris noticed that the two voices were too similar. I'm sure that's the case with mine too. I noticed how strongly the melody stood out in M. Delcamp's recording - so much so that when I went to practice it, I almost couldn't even tell if I was getting the rest of it right because you can barely hear it on the example recording. I did not work on softening the second voice ... it was enough of a challenge to learn the music (somewhat). I suppose in theory I should have practiced doing the second voice softer from the start ... in line with a saying, "It's not practice that makes perfect ... perfect practice makes perfect."

I'm not crazy about the use of vibrato in the Sor and Dowland pieces, particularly at 2:18 of the Sor piece. Just a matter of taste.

Funny too that the mention of barre has come up. I varied the end of the Sor piece in my practices, sometimes going with a full barre instead of the 4/6 barre, because the shift to the full barre slowed me up too much. I tried that out kind of late in my practice (after realizing that I was not likely to get the transition quick enough otherwise), but I can't remember how I recorded it. It's not easy to do the finger formation for the full barre and play the two 4/6 barre measures, but it does make things go quicker. And on the Cordoba, it has a skinnier neck, since it's only 48mm at the nut, so the full barre and finger formation is a little easier to achieve. (not that it's easy). And of course that takes away other stuff, like room for your fingers between strings.

Your Dowland piece was really expressive and smooth. Well done!

The Tarrega piece - now I DO like vibrato in that. It sounds like it belongs there. Compared to the other two pieces, you struggled more with this one, which surprised me, but at least I now know you are either human or a robot pretending to make a mistake so you can fool me into thinking that you're human. No, really I was a little surprised because I feel that arpeggios are usually easier to play that other patterns (to a point!), and this wasn't a terribly complicated piece. After many practices in a row, I sometimes lose RH control and have to stop for a bit. Also, IMO, this is a piece that benefits from a quick tempo. That does make it challenging to play the second half, though, where there are some quick large shifts of hand position.

Well, onward. I will try to qualify for the final. Still weeding out some of my calendar. In a couple weeks there should be incremental progress on that front ... though only to be replaced by tax season work (U.S.). So 2 steps forward, 2 or 3 back. :/

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:58 am

Very nice work Carl. This was indeed a hard lesson. Aside from your memory issues mentioned above, here are a couple things to look at.

In the Jumpe, the middle voices on some or nearly all of the chords were too soft or missing. It almost sounded like just two voices most of the time. I looks and sounds like you play without nails, and grabbing that m finger voice may be difficult for you without a nail.

I thought you did great on the Sor exercise, with the exception of the hesitation at each bar due again to your memorization and having to look at the music. My suggestion is to slow it way way down and only play it as fast as you can play in with continuity. Otherwise I fear you breed bad habits when you perform the piece. Once you can play it without hesitation at a slower pace, then you can gradually increase the tempo to be where you want it. If this were an exam piece and I were a judge (which I am not no judge) I would prefer a slower pace smoothly played to the correct tempo with hesitation.

I would say the same thing regarding tempo for the Tarrega Etude. One picky thing that I know is an issue with you and your reach: at measure 12, the bass note (G) is a dotted half note and should be held for throughout the measure while you stretch and grab the B with 4. I found it very difficult, but possible if I released the high G with (2) and pivot. it took me a lot of practice, and at first I just ignored it. But then I started to work on it and it cam, sort of.

Did anyone attempt the Paganini or the Sor Valse? I love the valse (maybe I'll record it sometime), but didn't touch the Paganini piece.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:12 am

Thanks for the nice comments Carl, I think. :wink: Segovia told a story of a nice little lady who complimented him after his concert backstage, saying that he sounded like a little music box up there on the stage (i.e. a machine). He was mortified!

But seriously, I've been working, as I said, on the Bm etude since this summer, so don't give me so much credit. The other two I just started with the rest of the class. Tarrega study Em was last year's exam piece, and will probably be again, so I need to work on it some more, I agree. I don't know why it was so difficult for me, not the learning of the dots, but the fast changes and stretches.

Regarding bringing out the melody and softer on the other voices, I actually thought in yours the middle voice was missing/too soft, as I mentioned above.

There's only a few of us left standing in D04, so hang in there. We're more than halfway through!
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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CarlWestman
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by CarlWestman » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:18 pm

Rick, you are right ... that is a nasty habit of mine. It is irresistible to play the measures I can play at tempo, regardless (beauregardless?) of the more difficult measures which slow me down. I know that I should slow the entire thing down to the "least common denominator", but I usually get around this through practice. As I get better at the piece, the tempo discrepancies shrink and ultimately close. This time, I could not get to that point.

In the past I used my digital recorder to slow the tempo of the demonstrated piece so I could play along with it. In recent years, however, I find that I can't process it well. It throws me off ... it's just a cognitive "feature" some people have - multiple audio channels (the recorder, my own playing) can cause confusion. For instance, if you're at a party talking to someone, and you can hear the words of another conversation right behind you, that second audio channel can cause you to lose your train of thought. If I could play in unison right away, it might not so affect me. ANyway, I suppose I could at least listen to it at a slower tempo and have that tempo imprinted on my memory when I go play.

Thanks for pointing out that measure 12 error. Wow, that one was not an ability issue (though it probably would have been). No, I simply failed to notice that, and practiced it wrong the entire time, as if it were a half note.

I would not mind at all if Tarrega Estudio becomes the final, but if it does, holding that bass note will surely be something to work on, a challenge, even on a 48mm nut /615 scale guitar.

To answer your question ... after the first week of walking through all the pieces and scales, I did not return to any of the ones that weren't "exam qualifying submissions." It takes me all of my practice time (and then some) just to get to the point you see. I feel that I can't afford to spend more time on pieces that aren't part of the exam qualifying submission. In the early days of a lesson, I'm lucky if I can walk through 2/3rds of the demonstrated videos in an hour. I'm not much of a sight reader, so that slows me up - I'm always translating the notes from written form to letter form, and from letter to their location on the fretboard. It's inefficient, but I've not yet been able to skip those transition steps, at least for notes that require ledger lines. Ones on the staff, I am starting to get more quickly without the processing & translating time.

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CarlWestman
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by CarlWestman » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:08 am

Rick Beauregard wrote: In the Jumpe, the middle voices on some or nearly all of the chords were too soft or missing. It almost sounded like just two voices most of the time. I looks and sounds like you play without nails, and grabbing that m finger voice may be difficult for you without a nail.
Actually I did play with nails! Apparently not very effectively. Usually I do not, as I find it hard to control how hard the string is plucked. Not infrequently a string will get caught under a nail and really boom out. But this time, I had just not trimmed my nails in awhile, so I shaped them and decided to record that way. Today I trimmed them short, and I could really tell a difference in sound, so I think they did do something. Just not much.

Now, what do you mean by middle voices? I assume you're talking the middle strings? Not bass, not treble? My guess is that it was my technique, not the presence or absence of nails. I'll play it again and see if I can't emphasize the "interior" strings of those chords more. Thanks so much again for your constructive feedback.

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Haris Karachristianidis
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Haris Karachristianidis » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:21 pm

Rick, your ESTUDIO in Em Tarrega is very nice! As you would expect I would prefer a less free and a little quicker version of it, but I like your slower, full of feeleings, melancholic version very much!

:bravo:

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Rick Beauregard » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:25 pm

CarlWestman wrote:
Rick Beauregard wrote: In the Jumpe, the middle voices on some or nearly all of the chords were too soft or missing. It almost sounded like just two voices most of the time. I looks and sounds like you play without nails, and grabbing that m finger voice may be difficult for you without a nail.
Actually I did play with nails! Apparently not very effectively. Usually I do not, as I find it hard to control how hard the string is plucked. Not infrequently a string will get caught under a nail and really boom out. But this time, I had just not trimmed my nails in awhile, so I shaped them and decided to record that way. Today I trimmed them short, and I could really tell a difference in sound, so I think they did do something. Just not much.

Now, what do you mean by middle voices? I assume you're talking the middle strings? Not bass, not treble? My guess is that it was my technique, not the presence or absence of nails. I'll play it again and see if I can't emphasize the "interior" strings of those chords more. Thanks so much again for your constructive feedback.
That's correct. The middle one with m. Which is sometimes difficult to pluck. I also have difficulty with a sounding thin and tinny and standing out like nails on a chalkboard.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Duang Turongratanachai
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Duang Turongratanachai » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:05 pm

My lesson 05 recordings. I'm not pleased at myself but if I wait till I reach that point, I could not be able to upload them :oops:.
Still working on Dowland!
Duang

Tarrega Estudio in E minor
[media]https://youtu.be/iPR6caAgJIA[/media]

Sor Exercice XXII opus 35
[media]https://youtu.be/WgazXlQ3ZjQ[/media]

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Rick Beauregard » Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:36 am

Nicely done Duang. I couldn't find anything wrong with your performance that more practice won't cure. On the Tarrega piece, you played it very well at a nice tempo AND you held that G while making the stretch. :bravo: Good because there is an even nastier stretch in the Pavan in the next lesson. You seem to have this piece memorized.

The Sor Bm study is still not fully in your fingers yet, which caused you to hesitate some. You played it very deliberately at a tempo you could handle without too many errors, while looking at the music. I thought I detected a reading error in the very last measure, but you played it correctly the second time around.

I know that at the end of a lesson we are apt to never play a piece again because we want to move on after hearing ourselves play them for so long. But keep playing these two. We may see one of them on the final exam. The Tarrega was on the last year test. And the Bm etude is something that you should add to you repertoire. No matter how well you know and play it, you'll find it always challenges and can be played better, more musically, more technically perfect. That's why many of the masters still play it and record it.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Haris Karachristianidis
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Haris Karachristianidis » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:24 pm

Carl, I agree with Rick's comment. You play the pieces very well (I still can't comment on Dowland because I have not played it yet... :( ).
I agree with Rick, play it slower but without interruptions, with continuity. I would suggest not to play it from memory, but from the score, most changes are not very difficult and you do not need to look at the guitar, so you can read the score. The voices are separated as they should and the melody stands out.

Playing with nails has improved your sound! I would suggest to continue with nails, make experiments till you find the correct shape, length and playing angle.

:bravo:

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Haris Karachristianidis
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Haris Karachristianidis » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:33 pm

Duang, very nice!
Estudio in E minor is very nice as is opus 35, which needs a little more practice to become fluent. Both pieces have nice sound!

:bravo:

Rick Beauregard wrote:Did anyone attempt the Paganini or the Sor Valse? I love the valse (maybe I'll record it sometime), but didn't touch the Paganini piece.
Not me. I don't think I would play one of these Paganinini pieces without having too although they are very good training..

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Duang Turongratanachai
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Duang Turongratanachai » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:47 pm

Thank you Rick, Haris for the comments. :) :merci:
Rick, I like your Dowland, just first few notes that seemed too tense for me, but the rest of the piece was great! Your Sor was very good. :bravo: I agree with you that this one I should keep playing. I like this piece so much. :casque:
Duang

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Duang Turongratanachai
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Duang Turongratanachai » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:55 pm

Haris Karachristianidis wrote:Carl, I agree with Rick's comment. You play the pieces very well (I still can't comment on Dowland because I have not played it yet... :( ).
I agree with Rick, play it slower but without interruptions, with continuity. I would suggest not to play it from memory, but from the score, most changes are not very difficult and you do not need to look at the guitar, so you can read the score. The voices are separated as they should and the melody stands out.

Playing with nails has improved your sound! I would suggest to continue with nails, make experiments till you find the correct shape, length and playing angle.

:bravo:
Carl, congratulations on your recordings :bravo:
I agree with Rick and Haris. I also will work on the pieces slowly but continuously. :D
Duang

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Haris Karachristianidis
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Haris Karachristianidis » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:01 am

After a lot of time I managed to reach a decent level and to record..

Francisco Tarrega - Estudio en mi minor
[media]https://youtu.be/GdPi6CIB-UY[/media]

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 05

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:34 am

You played it perfectly Haris.:bravo:

Nice tempo, your thumb damping is a lesson in the skill. You do it perfectly. You held that long stretch. Very nice.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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