D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

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Jean-François Delcamp
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D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Jean-François Delcamp » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:59 pm

Hello everyone,
Please start by downloading the latest version of volume D04.
If you are new to the course, please read this message to familiarize yourself with the conditions for participating in the lessons. You should also read the first message in lesson 1, where you will find advice on how to make the most of your study time and on the methods of practising that I recommend.




We are now going to work on a series of exercises:
- pages 115, 116 Delcamp, Jean-François Gammes, numéros 20, 21 et 22
Concentrate your practice on the passages highlighted in yellow, working to perfect the technique of position-shifting up and down the neck.







- page 125 Delcamp, Jean-François BARRÉ - BARRÉ - BARRÉ – CEJILLA
You have to be careful and listen to what your body is telling you when you begin to practise the barré. Be sure to keep in mind that if you overdo your practising of the barré, you risk developing tendonitis which often takes a long time to heal and will cause you a good deal of stress if, like me, you love the guitar with a passion. Pain is a warning sign that should be respected. As soon as you feel pain, you should have the wisdom to stop practising immediately until the next day. In the 80's, I wasn't prepared to listen to the pain caused by practising the barré, and only a total break from the guitar lasting a whole year enabled me to start playing again. Now I stop immediately at the first warning sign of pain. Since I started being careful, I've had no more problems.

To acquire the technique for the barré, it is essential above all not to force it. The ideal is to practise a little, but every day.

- For greater effectiveness, the thumb is placed opposite the middle finger, rather than behind the index finger making the barré.
- Place the index finger very close to the fret, almost on top of it.
- Make sure that your shoulder, forearm, wrist and hand are really relaxed. Only the fingers should be exerting a light pressure, otherwise you'll be heading for disaster and at risk of jeopardizing your future progress by giving yourself tendonitis. Relaxing the arm and forearm allows you to take advantage of the weight of the arm and forearm to help the index finger to press more easily against the strings.
- Avoid bending the left wrist, as that will hurt and will impede the action of the fingers. Find the position (of the guitar neck, your elbow and your shoulder) which will allow you to make the barré without bending your wrist.

- The creases of the finger joints cause some slight problems. In particular the crease of the joint between the last two bones of the index finger (the middle and distal phalanges).

To illustrate this, here are 2 photos of my right hand index finger ready to make a barré (I am left handed). I am not pressing on the strings, so that the crease of the joint is more visible.
1. In this photograph, the joint crease of the index finger is situated exactly over the third string, so the third string will not be pressed fully against the fingerboard, and the sound will be muffled or non-existent.
joint crease of the index finger on the 3rd string
Image
2. A solution is to position this crease where it will not cause a problem (between the strings)
joint crease of the index finger between the 3rd and 4th strings
Image

Practising the barré demands patience. The first results of this practice (improvement in strength) only become noticeable after several weeks or months of daily practice.

The tension of the strings (normal, hard, or extra hard) also plays a role in barrés. A set of "extra hard" tension strings requires more strength than a "normal" tension set. A "normal" tension set of strings and a low action* will help you.
* The action of a guitar is the distance between the stationary string and the frets, usually measured at the 12th fret. You can have the action adjusted by a luthier.





Finally we'll look at 4 pieces.
- page 6, 7 Milán, Don Luys Pavane I
Image



- pages 50, 51 Sor, Fernando Exercice opus 35 n°13, en do majeur, Segovia n°2
This piece consists of a melody with accompaniment. Bring out the melody notes (those with the stem pointing up) by using rest strokes with your third finger. Play the accompaniment (the notes with the stem pointing down) quietly, with gentle free strokes using the thumb, middle and index fingers.
These two simultaneous strokes, one a strongly played rest stroke, the other a gentle free stroke, will seem very difficult, or even impossible, to achieve. But don't worry, my students manage this double stroke after 15 minutes. The first few minutes of practising this right-hand skill are always agonizing for students, because they feel that they will never succeed. In my lessons, my role is to reassure the students and encourage them to persevere. Often, after 15 minutes of repeating the same movements, students start to get there. Sometimes they are quite amazed at having succeeded at what seemed impossible. Because by repeatedly failing to perform rest and free strokes simultaneously, you end up convincing yourself that it's impossible. In short, persevere! Have courage!

Be patient, stay relaxed, don't get annoyed with yourself, don't curse me, just repeat the same movements over and over again while making an effort to get it right. In a few hours or a few days you will achieve mastery of this simultaneous rest and free stroke. This technique is used in the piece "Jeux interdits".



- page 86 Coste, Napoléon Barcarolle opus 51
Barcarolle opus 51 is in two sections, each of 16 bars. It has a phrase structure of 4 bars. The piece is in the key of A, and this key allows the optimal use of the 2 bass strings of the guitar: E (dominant), A (tonic). Observe the exact duration of the bass notes, and damp them by placing your thumb on the string as and where indicated by the damping symbols and finger indications on the first line.



- page 93 Francesco Roggi Lu primm'ammore
This piece consists of a melody with accompaniment. Bring out the melody notes (those with the stem pointing up) by using rest strokes with your third finger. Play the accompaniment (the notes with the stem pointing down) quietly, with gentle free strokes using the thumb, middle and index fingers.





I ask you first to work on all these exercises and pieces for one week and then to post your recordings on the forum for:
- pages 50, 51 Sor, Fernando Exercice opus 35 n°13, en do majeur, Segovia n°2
- page 86 Coste, Napoléon Barcarolle opus 51
- page 93 Francesco Roggi Lu primm'ammore


Good luck!

I thank Geoff (GeoffB) who has helped in the translation of my lessons into English.

Jean-François

---

Exam qualifying submissions:

Exercice opus 35 n°13, en do majeur
Barcarolle opus 51
Lu primm'ammore

Rick Beauregard

Exercice opus 35 n°13, en do majeur
Barcarolle opus 51
Lu primm'ammore

CarlWestman

Exercice opus 35 n°13, en do majeur
Barcarolle opus 51
Lu primm'ammore
:( + ♫ = :)

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by CarlWestman » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

OK, I'll start it off. All the pieces seem challenging, but reachable. I feel like those exercises with the independent finger movement were intended for situations just like the first measure of the Roggi piece, where you're having to keep finger 3 down on the low E string while maneuvering fingers 2 and 4 on the D string.

The last measure of Roggi was a little perplexing to me, as it looked like you'd need all 5 RH fingers to free stroke it, but M. Delcamp plays it as a 4-string strum with a g note that comes up at the end of the strum ... this is a slight variation from the written score, right? (is score the right term, or should I say sheet music?).

Good luck everyone.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Rick Beauregard » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:59 am

I agree, some challenging pieces here that will exercise lots of the skills we've been learning. I like to think of fingering as a sort of choreography on the fret board. I also had to write out the right hand fingering on the Roggi piece tonight to and work out the rhythm. Some challenging left hand fingering in the Sor exercise too in measures 27-30. This one makes my hand tired with a lot of contractions, kind of like the Bm etude did. I took out my copy of the Segovia Sor Studies. This one is No. 2. There is one place (and a repeat, so two) where he uses different fingering. In measure 7 and 15. He plays the D in the bass on the 4th string. After 7 decades of playing these pieces I figure he had good reasons for the fingerings he used, so I will try to make that change. It is a little harder than the open D but flows nicely to the next notes.

I read on a post here somewhere the idea of working out and writing in your copy all the fingering (that is not totally obvious) so that when you pick up the piece sometime in the future long after you've forgotten it, you can learn it much faster rather that figuring it all out again. I thought that was a good idea.

I am also going to take a crack at the Luys Milan Pavan. I like early music like you Carl. I've been looking forward to learning some of these. This is a straightforward piece, except for the bar stretch in measure 25, and all the chords. Playing all the right strings on the chords, and not the ones that you're not supposed to play, is a bit of a challenge in a few places.

We are beginning to learn some pieces that have been recorded many times by the greats. Popular "covers," if you will.

Have fun out there! :guitare:
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by CarlWestman » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:25 am

How about the fingering in Roggi, measure 15? You go from D# on the 4th finger to D# on the 3rd finger. Why not just start out on the third? I realize you have a leftover D# from the 4th finger in measure 14, but that note is over and you should have lifted up before measure 15 started. I'm inclined to minimize movement and go with the 3rd finger for both D# notes in measure 15.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Rick Beauregard » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:59 pm

CarlWestman wrote:How about the fingering in Roggi, measure 15? You go from D# on the 4th finger to D# on the 3rd finger. Why not just start out on the third? I realize you have a leftover D# from the 4th finger in measure 14, but that note is over and you should have lifted up before measure 15 started. I'm inclined to minimize movement and go with the 3rd finger for both D# notes in measure 15.
I agree, that's what my fingers wanted to do also. I must say though that more often than not, when I make fingering changes while learning the piece at slower tempo, I end up changing them back again when I move up to playing tempo, so we'll see on this one.

You were up early practicing this morning?
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Rick Beauregard » Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:17 pm

How is everyone doing on their study? I'm having a tough time on the Sor exercise in measures 19-20 committing that to memory. I can play it slow, but get mixed up at speed. The ending is tough too, the bars and hinge bar, but I think I am getting that down.

I'd say the Baracolle is coming along the best. I am almost ready to try and record an early attempt at that one. Very lovely little piece.

On the Roggi piece, I am having trouble with the very first four measures, and the same at the end. This is a great piece to put our finger independence exercises to the test!

I'm also attempting to learn the Milan Pavana I. But there are two really tough reaches. I almost have the one in m 25 down. There is an alternative fingering below the line that is much easier, and there is another fingering entirely in the Noad version. But M 35 is tough. Keeping that F 2 down for the entire measure and beyond is impossible for me right now. I can play it with a half bar on III but that is not correct. Noad fingers this section differently without the whole note. I might just play it that way. There is a reason for the double boxes around these two measures. Other than that, I need to work on damping correctly, and a nice smooth even approach.
Noad Pavana 1 M 35.pdf
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All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by CarlWestman » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:44 am

I'm in a similar place, well, probably two full notches down, but the relativities are there. Barcarolle is coming along best, though that descending pattern near the end (before the repeat) is super-challenging. I am not close to doing that part at a smooth tempo. Not that the rest is smooth, but it's smoother, for sure.

The Sor piece is particularly challenging b/c of its length (in measures; hard to memorize), tempo, and those barres are particularly tough. I definitely am having issues with getting a clean sound on them. It's a little tricky to get the fingers in position as in measure 3. I can see myself having to read the sheet music when I go record it.

Roggi - yes, for some reason, the tempo of those first few measures is tricky. Going from the quarter to eighth notes, for some reason, isn't sounding smooth. I'm trying to listen to the demonstrated piece intently so I can get the sound in my head. Roggi's piece is a bit tricky too - some unusual shapes and fingering throughout.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Rick Beauregard » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:23 pm

CarlWestman wrote:I'm in a similar place, well, probably two full notches down, but the relativities are there. Barcarolle is coming along best, though that descending pattern near the end (before the repeat) is super-challenging. I am not close to doing that part at a smooth tempo. Not that the rest is smooth, but it's smoother, for sure.
If you're talking about M29/30 I have trouble with that too. I think I may just play it without the slurs. I actually think it sounds better and is easier for me to play cleanly.
The Sor piece is particularly challenging b/c of its length (in measures; hard to memorize), tempo, and those barres are particularly tough. I definitely am having issues with getting a clean sound on them. It's a little tricky to get the fingers in position as in measure 3. I can see myself having to read the sheet music when I go record it.
Me too, but for the train wreck in 19/20. I've practiced it till I am raw and can't seem to get it right.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by CarlWestman » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:59 pm

That's interesting. While 19/20 is just one of many I don't have down all that well, I think once I have it memorized I'll be able to physically do it better (memorized enough so that I can "see" it coming in my mind before I get there). But for me, 27 and 29 are my Waterloo on that Sor piece. And there, I know what to do, the barres just don't want to play cleanly. I should consider trying my 650/52 on it, see if that makes any difference.

I had not thought of playing the end of Barcarolle without the slurs. I wonder if I can at this point.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:12 am

CarlWestman wrote:I had not thought of playing the end of Barcarolle without the slurs. I wonder if I can at this point.
I am reconsidering. After your post I went back and looked at the video of JFD. I was playing in all in the upper 9th position, last note on the third string 3rd finger not 4th, which I guess in not wrong, though it is not indicated 3rd string, so I guess you have to assume 2nd string. But he slides down to fourth, position. I think that is easier to get down to the first position chords at the end. I'm changing.

I'm not that close to recording any of these yet.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
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National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by EricKatz » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:41 am

Rick Beauregard wrote:
CarlWestman wrote:I had not thought of playing the end of Barcarolle without the slurs. I wonder if I can at this point.
I am reconsidering. After your post I went back and looked at the video of JFD. I was playing in all in the upper 9th position, last note on the third string 3rd finger not 4th, which I guess in not wrong, though it is not indicated 3rd string, so I guess you have to assume 2nd string. But he slides down to fourth, position.
Hi Rick,
Don't skip the slurs! They are essential, because they give a special rhythmic effect. The second slur starts at the upbeat of count 2.
That third finger is not a bad idea. It's indicated in the original score (get it for free via IMSLP), but Coste doesn't indicate on which string. So you can stay in 9th position but you can also descend to the 4th position.
But since you follow the lessons of professor Delcamp, you should use his fingering. All the upper notes of m.29 and m.30 should be played on the first string, as is clearly indicated by the 1 in the circle and the line that goes from it to the end of m.30. So you start in 9th position, then descend to 4th position and back to zero when p;laying the f sharp.
IMO this fingering is a good choice, because the melody notes in m.31 continue at the same string.

Good luck with the study of this piece. Especially the rests in the bass line make it really hard.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:35 pm

Eric de Vries wrote:
Rick Beauregard wrote:
CarlWestman wrote:I had not thought of playing the end of Barcarolle without the slurs. I wonder if I can at this point.
I am reconsidering. After your post I went back and looked at the video of JFD. I was playing in all in the upper 9th position, last note on the third string 3rd finger not 4th, which I guess in not wrong, though it is not indicated 3rd string, so I guess you have to assume 2nd string. But he slides down to fourth, position.
Hi Rick,
Don't skip the slurs! They are essential, because they give a special rhythmic effect. The second slur starts at the upbeat of count 2.
That third finger is not a bad idea. It's indicated in the original score (get it for free via IMSLP), but Coste doesn't indicate on which string. So you can stay in 9th position but you can also descend to the 4th position.
But since you follow the lessons of professor Delcamp, you should use his fingering. All the upper notes of m.29 and m.30 should be played on the first string, as is clearly indicated by the 1 in the circle and the line that goes from it to the end of m.30. So you start in 9th position, then descend to 4th position and back to zero when p;laying the f sharp.
IMO this fingering is a good choice, because the melody notes in m.31 continue at the same string.

Good luck with the study of this piece. Especially the rests in the bass line make it really hard.
Thanks for the advice Eric. I thought maybe the slurs might be optional, as in Lagrima, where I've seen them written on Noad's version, but many say to leave them out. I completely missed the 1 and the line. I agree with the thought of keeping the melody on the same string when possible. I think I have most of the damping down, but I need to pay ore attention to these details once I get the notes in my fingers better.

What is you opinion on tempo? This is one of those romantic pieces that I think sounds good at a wide range of tempo, somewhat slower than indicated, and with rubato. I will look for the original, thanks!
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:43 pm

Another question Eric, from looking at the original score: FD indicates the accidental in measure 13 as all three note slurred, like a triplet, if I read it correctly. The original score (I just downloaded it EDIT: TURNS OUT I DOWNLOADED A DIFFERENT ONE FROM THE SAME WEBSITE. I HAVE THE ORIG NOW, AND THE SLUR IS AS WRITTEN BY dELCAMP) shows just two notes slurred. I have been having trouble getting a really clean triplet, so I was playing it as written in the original. Thoughts?
Last edited by Rick Beauregard on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by EricKatz » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:14 pm

Rick Beauregard wrote: What is you opinion on tempo? This is one of those romantic pieces that I think sounds good at a wide range of tempo, somewhat slower than indicated, and with rubato.
"A barcarole is characterized by a rhythm reminiscent of the gondolier's stroke, almost invariably in 6/8 meter at a moderate tempo" (The New Harvard Dictionary of Music).
So we count 1-2-3-4-5-6; the tempo of the beat is moderate (108-120). Coste uses 3/8-bars, but as you play the piece it's clear that everytime two bars are grouped together.
The Original says 1/4 note=112 bpm. One could say there ought to be a dot after the quarter note, but I have read that in a case like this this notation just means every three 1/8 notes have a beat on the first one, tempo 112 bpm. They are considered as triplets.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 06

Post by CarlWestman » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:30 pm

Rick Beauregard wrote:Another question Eric, from looking at the original score: FD indicates the accidental in measure 13 as all three note slurred, like a triplet, if I read it correctly. The original score (I just downloaded it EDIT: TURNS OUT I DOWNLOADED A DIFFERENT ONE FROM THE SAME WEBSITE. I HAVE THE ORIG NOW, AND THE SLUR IS AS WRITTEN BY dELCAMP) shows just two notes slurred. I have been having trouble getting a really clean triplet, so I was playing it as written in the original. Thoughts?
Are you talking about Barcarolle? I was just checking my playing on that versus the demonstrated example by M. Delcamp, and I am probably not doing it right. But looking at the music I don't quite know how it should go. Ignoring note duration for now, I hear, in the video, 5 separate groups of notes being played before the harmonic on the high e. But on the sheet music, it kind of looks like there ought to be 6. The extra one seems to be the 16th note A on the first string, halfway through. I don't quite understand how it should be played based on the music, because it is tied to the first group of notes (low A, F# on 2nd string, and high A on first string). In between is a high B on the first string.

So you sound the A/F#/A, quickly use your pinky to hit B at the first string, 7th fret ... and then what? From the video's sound, it appears you slide over really quickly to E (2nd string) and G# (1st string). If so, OK. Tough, but at least I understand it.

What confuses me is that 16th note A that is tied. I had been playing it again (using a pull-off, but I could do it with a free stroke). But by playing it again, I'm getting 6 total sounds before that harmonic. I'm only hearing 5 on the recording. So it's almost as if it's silent. I'm really puzzled.

Another thing that is kind of messing with me is that I just picked up my 650/52 and really kind of miss the string spacing that my 615/48 lacks. The former is really too long of a scale for my hands (based on a number of guidelines suggested in Alicia Kopfstein-Penk's book, The Healthy Guitar), but it does make the RH fingerwork easier. And for a lot of things, it really sounds better. There aren't any horrible reaches in this lesson, so maybe I should have been using the 650/52 for this lesson's practice all along. I had hoped to fully move to the 615/48, and I suppose that's why I didn't think of the other. But I do prefer the full size when hard stretches are not an issue. It's a lot easier to find a cheap, good hard case for it too!

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