D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

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Chu Bun
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:08 pm

Andrei Puhach wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:20 am
Thanks, but now I realize that it is difficult to position the fingers correctly. Once they are already in place it is easy to play. That transition from measure 11 to 12 is rather tricky.
I experience the same problem. When the fingers are not positioned optimally, the pull off will be either weak or inaudible. I believe there is a strong linkage between the 3 and 4 finger. When I exert too much pressure on 3 (trying to hold the G note for the whole measure), it will be very difficult for 4 to move and do the pull off. I find using 2 instead of 3 to fret the G note is easier, but that would be cheating.

Regarding hand works, that is one of the reasons why I play without nails.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:43 am

Andrei Puhach wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:08 am
DaveMoutrie wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:47 am
Andrei Puhach wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:20 am


Thanks, but now I realize that it is difficult to position the fingers correctly. Once they are already in place it is easy to play. That transition from measure 11 to 12 is rather tricky.
Any idea why this should be?

This is a transition from a C chord to a G chord. The third finger simply crosses over from the 5th string to the 6th string. However, the third finger must be both placed accurately and straightened out. Meanwhile the 4th finger must be placed on the 1st string both simultaniously and at the same time as well. There really is quite a lot going on here in one move.

Do you practice any string crossing exercises such as the one in Pumping Nylon?
I mostly practice right hand finger crossing by playing a G melodic minor scale passage (see the attachment) with 3 and 4 fingers only as part of my warm up routine (this is a universal scale pattern, can be played from any fret. If played in first position it is a good stretch exercise for the left hand as well):

G Minor Scale Passage from A. Nosov School.png

This from the Guitar School by Andrey Nosov (g i t a r a n o s o v . r u), lesson #99.
Even though it says to use 'i' and 'm' I play it with 'm' and 'a'. I do this every day but still not good at it, keep missing notes. Especially, the ascending part.

For the left hand I like playing chromatic octaves (Level IV of Ricardo Iznaola's book).
DaveMoutrie wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:47 am
Unfortunately I am once again reminded of the deep folly of DIY for classical guitarists. As a result of smashing up large lumps of concrete with a hammer and chisle - followed by some tree lopping, I have a very swollen middle finger and restricted movement of my left hand. As a result of this I am temporarily (I hope) unable to practice. :(
Oh man... That's not good... Hope you'll recover soon and can resume your practice. I read a lot of advices saying not to play when in any kind of pain (which makes perfect sense). Get all the rest you need.

[a bit off-topic comes next, some of my memories, not useful contribution to the lesson, feel free to skip]
I used to do A LOT of labor when I was a teenager. Basically, I grew up in a village, we've got tons of stuff to do. Then my family built a house from scratch using minimum machinery (90% of the work was done by my parents, grandpa, me and my brother). Also did some heavy lifting. Somehow I tried not to use any hand protection, was kind of proud of my strong and callused laborer hands :) Fortunately, I never ever had any traumas or strains caused by work or heavy lifting. As soon as I stopped that my hands went back to normal.
Now I'm not doing much physically, except a recent occasion when I did some lumberjack work (which I love since childhood). The next day was a lucky day as I was able to play as usual, no pain.
The worst thing which happened to my hands (which could have caused me to stop playing guitar forever) was a flexor tendon cut in the left thumb (which was "rewired" by an orthopedic surgeon). This one makes it possible to squeeze the thumb tip and other fingers. Also, to keep it on the other back of the neck to compensate pressure of the other fingers.
Wow, what an interesting life you've led ..... and a lucky escape as well by the sounds of things. I always wanted to be a lumberjack (I'm going to lapse into Monty Python in a moment).

Luckily left hand is almost back to normal now, however the last few days have been an excellent opportunity to practice my right hand technique. I've been concentrating on the right hand pattern of Villa Lobos etude no 1. Playing in 5 minute bursts and using the metronome to gradually increase speed. Also been using the time I would have been practicing to watch some of the Julian Bream masterclasses on youtube.

Hope to be posting some of this months pieces before too long. I expect you'll probably beat me to it though. :wink:
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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:32 pm

DaveMoutrie wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:43 am
...

Luckily left hand is almost back to normal now, however the last few days have been an excellent opportunity to practice my right hand technique. I've been concentrating on the right hand pattern of Villa Lobos etude no 1. Playing in 5 minute bursts and using the metronome to gradually increase speed. Also been using the time I would have been practicing to watch some of the Julian Bream masterclasses on youtube.

Hope to be posting some of this months pieces before too long. I expect you'll probably beat me to it though. :wink:
That's an awesome piece for developing RH I think (but I did not learn it yet). Great choice!
And glad to hear you are recovering.

I'm not going to beat you this month as I'm preparing to give a gig for a group of people (like 20-30). Was invited to a party and asked to bring my CG. So, now I'm polishing my old repertoire, trying to get 120% ready so that these extra 20% can beat performance anxiety. Some pieces are not even 80% yet...
I already have some limited experience of playing to others (up to ~15 people at once), so, I hope that's not going to be a train wreck. Just make sure to have some time to warm up and start from an easy piece. An interesting fact is that the RH is more affected by performance anxiety than LH. So, I'll try to play as much RH exercises as I can during warm up. Fortunately, there should time and place to get prepared. Also, it is recommended to eat a banana before a performance :)
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DaveMoutrie
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:28 am

Andrei Puhach wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:32 pm


That's an awesome piece for developing RH I think (but I did not learn it yet). Great choice!
And glad to hear you are recovering.

I'm not going to beat you this month as I'm preparing to give a gig for a group of people (like 20-30). Was invited to a party and asked to bring my CG. So, now I'm polishing my old repertoire, trying to get 120% ready so that these extra 20% can beat performance anxiety. Some pieces are not even 80% yet...
I already have some limited experience of playing to others (up to ~15 people at once), so, I hope that's not going to be a train wreck. Just make sure to have some time to warm up and start from an easy piece. An interesting fact is that the RH is more affected by performance anxiety than LH. So, I'll try to play as much RH exercises as I can during warm up. Fortunately, there should time and place to get prepared. Also, it is recommended to eat a banana before a performance :)
That's a really couragious thing to do ... and so much to think about. How many pieces, how long you want it to last, volume, amplification, venue etc etc.

Performing in front of a camera is hard enough, but at least you know you can always do another take. With and audience it has to be right first time so I understand why you would want each piece at 120 percent.

I think when I got to this level I might want to test my self by recording the pieces under less than ideal conditions. e.g. when tired at night or after a couple of glasses of pinot grigiot.

Interesting about the banana - I know it contains potassium so has an effect on the heart. Does it calm you by slowing the heart rate down when you are nervous?

Good luck, hope it all goes well for you. :D
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DaveMoutrie
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:31 pm

Chu Bun wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:08 pm
Andrei Puhach wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:20 am
Thanks, but now I realize that it is difficult to position the fingers correctly. Once they are already in place it is easy to play. That transition from measure 11 to 12 is rather tricky.
I experience the same problem. When the fingers are not positioned optimally, the pull off will be either weak or inaudible. I believe there is a strong linkage between the 3 and 4 finger. When I exert too much pressure on 3 (trying to hold the G note for the whole measure), it will be very difficult for 4 to move and do the pull off. I find using 2 instead of 3 to fret the G note is easier, but that would be cheating.

Regarding hand works, that is one of the reasons why I play without nails.
Just been having another look at this one. I believe the problem is that in transitioning from the position in bar 11 to that in bar 12 the move involves positioning 3 fingers very accurately all at the same time.

One solution to this is to move the 3rd finger from the C in the bass to the G before the end of bar 11. This leaves only the 4th finger to place on the top G and the 1st on the F at the start of bar 12. It is important however not to move the 3rd finger too early on in bar 11 since this will destroy the legato effect of the arpeggio.
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Chu Bun
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:49 pm

Andrei,

You can practice the Maria Luisa piece and use it in your performance. I think that's a familiar and nice tune. Kill two birds with one stone!

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:25 pm

DaveMoutrie wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:28 am
Andrei Puhach wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:32 pm


That's an awesome piece for developing RH I think (but I did not learn it yet). Great choice!
And glad to hear you are recovering.

I'm not going to beat you this month as I'm preparing to give a gig for a group of people (like 20-30). Was invited to a party and asked to bring my CG. So, now I'm polishing my old repertoire, trying to get 120% ready so that these extra 20% can beat performance anxiety. Some pieces are not even 80% yet...
I already have some limited experience of playing to others (up to ~15 people at once), so, I hope that's not going to be a train wreck. Just make sure to have some time to warm up and start from an easy piece. An interesting fact is that the RH is more affected by performance anxiety than LH. So, I'll try to play as much RH exercises as I can during warm up. Fortunately, there should time and place to get prepared. Also, it is recommended to eat a banana before a performance :)
That's a really couragious thing to do ... and so much to think about. How many pieces, how long you want it to last, volume, amplification, venue etc etc.

Performing in front of a camera is hard enough, but at least you know you can always do another take. With and audience it has to be right first time so I understand why you would want each piece at 120 percent.

I think when I got to this level I might want to test my self by recording the pieces under less than ideal conditions. e.g. when tired at night or after a couple of glasses of pinot grigiot.

Interesting about the banana - I know it contains potassium so has an effect on the heart. Does it calm you by slowing the heart rate down when you are nervous?

Good luck, hope it all goes well for you. :D
That is going to be an informal event, just some general gathering, not guitar specific. No worries about volume, amplification (I don't have any), venue. Hopefully, I'll be playing in a separate room, and whoever is interested can go watch this. It is probably not a good idea to play in the main hall where folks talk. I noticed, people do not pay full attention to music, treat it as some background decoration. So, performing in a separate room will be good for all: not interfering with the talkers, not forcing anyone to listen (I totally understand that not everybody likes classical guitar music no matter how good a performer is or what he plays), playing to fewer people (which is less stressful), avoiding that situation of going up on a stage when everyone is watching you.

I tried to record smth yesterday, figured that need to work so much more... Not only it is about mistakes, but in general it did not sound good at all (like tempo, phrasing).

Re banana, just read somewhere on this forum that it helps fight trembling/shaking hands, not sure how exactly it works :)
Last edited by Andrei Puhach on Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:50 pm

Chu Bun wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:49 pm
Andrei,

You can practice the Maria Luisa piece and use it in your performance. I think that's a familiar and nice tune. Kill two birds with one stone!
That's a nice piece. Not sure if I can get it up to a performance level in ~1.5 weeks... Good idea though :)
Last edited by Andrei Puhach on Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:14 pm

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:50 pm

My 2/3 for this month. Besides the usual wrong notes, dead notes, missing notes, ... I also skipped many repeats sections.




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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:38 am

Chu Bun wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:50 pm
My 2/3 for this month. Besides the usual wrong notes, dead notes, missing notes, ... I also skipped many repeats sections.

Hey Chu, congrats on finishing 2 pieces! There are not that many wrong or dead notes by the way, especially, taking into account increasing difficulty of the pieces. I noticed, that you memorized the major part of the Carsassi Valse :) Not sure how it is possible NOT to look at the fretboard when moving to/from higher frets. Needs really a lot of practice. I cannot do that at all, can only look in the sheet music when playing up to the 5th fret.

Nothing really to comment on. One minor thing at the beginning of the Carcassi piece: when shifting try to lift the i finger to avoid squeaking noise.
You nailed that difficult measure 12 btw, good for you!

The Sargeras piece is difficult due to crazy damps. You did great job here. For me it is not very comfortable to play a block chord with a,m,i (or just m,i) on strings 1-3 and damp the lower E at the same time....
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:29 am

Andrei Puhach wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:38 am
... noticed, that you memorized the major part of the Carsassi Valse :) ...
You have very keen observation. I thought nobody would notice! I kept on misfretting notes in that section. The funny thing is without thinking about it I'm pretty accurate, but as soon as I worry about misfretting, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I didn't really have any choice other than memorizing the notes so I could check my fretting hand.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:18 am

Chu Bun wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:50 pm
My 2/3 for this month. Besides the usual wrong notes, dead notes, missing notes, ... I also skipped many repeats sections.




congratulations Chu, you're certainly way ahead of the rest of us on these pieces. I really would not have known that you play without nails if you had not mentioned it.

I hope you don't mind if I offer a little constructive critisism though:

Maria Luisa

Nice even tempo throughout - The given tempo is 108 and I don't think you are too far off this. You have those difficult dampings licked and also the tricky bit at the end - There are no rallantandos marked in the score, but I JF throws one or two in which sounds quite effective. Also you are playing at a consistant volume throughout the piece - again nothing is marked in the score. JF plays it very quietly at the end of the B section and I think that sound very effective.

Carcassi, Matteo Valse opus 23 n°9

Tempo - You are playing considerable slower than the indicated 138. This is not a bad thing to do - better to play slower and get most of the notes right. You certainly have the difficult pulloff in bar 12 licked - well done, I'm still struggling.

As JF mentions this Valse is based on contrasts: In the first line of the piece phrase 1 is marked ff and phrase 2 mf. This is along the lines of a question and a response, so should try to sound like 2 different voices - or 2 different instruments. I think you play the second phrase a little quieter than the first, but to my ear it doesn't sound different enough to be 2 different voices.

Bar 7 dotted note missed but nailed it later.

In Bar 18 JF plays a rallantando but this is not in score. However it sounds good (personal opinion) so I think it is good to leave it in

Bar 20 dotted note missed.

From bar 27 onwards the C part (a change to the major from the minor in the b part) is marked Dolce - Italian for sweet. So this needs to be played in somewhat softer tones.

Bar 43 Diminuendo - volume reduces to a P However, each individual set of 2 notes is quieter on the second one as indicated by the > sign making this quite difficult to do.

Overall though excellent job - the points I've picked up on are really just the icing on the cake.
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:26 pm

I've been really struggling to get a clean version of the Maria Luisa. Missed dampings bum notes etc., etc., - Realy jealous of you Chu!!


Here is my best effort so far.....

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:20 pm

[not lesson related, some personal experience of a public performance]

Initially I posted some observations here but then moved to a different topic: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=119213
Last edited by Andrei Puhach on Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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