D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:46 pm

DaveMoutrie wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:26 pm
I've been really struggling to get a clean version of the Maria Luisa. Missed dampings bum notes etc., etc., - Realy jealous of you Chu!!


Here is my best effort so far.....

Hey Dave, that's a very musical interpretation! Nice vibrato! Also, the tempo is just about right I guess. Missed dampings make it sound even better in some places actually. :)
But I think you know what I'm going to complain about, right? It is about not alternating right hand fingers. This ascending passage in the first measure: 4 times you play the second half of it with 'a' finger only.
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DaveMoutrie
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:59 pm

Andrei Puhach wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:46 pm
DaveMoutrie wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:26 pm
I've been really struggling to get a clean version of the Maria Luisa. Missed dampings bum notes etc., etc., - Realy jealous of you Chu!!


Here is my best effort so far.....

Hey Dave, that's a very musical interpretation! Nice vibrato! Also, the tempo is just about right I guess. Missed dampings make it sound even better in some places actually. :)
But I think you know what I'm going to complain about, right? It is about not alternating right hand fingers. This ascending passage in the first measure: 4 times you play the second half of it with 'a' finger only.
Thank you for your comment Andrie,

I had not noticed that I was playing repeated a in the video, but now that you mention it - its obvious.

When I was practicing this piece I was certainly doing imim alternation and when I pick the guitar up now to play it, my fingers instinctively go to imim alternation. I guess I'm just relieved when I make a recording that does not have too many glaring errors in it.

What I really need to do is have some sort of a check list and watch myself carefully before posting! Also record early so there is plenty of time to re record.

By the way, congratulations on your public perfomance. You played some really advanced pieces. I have had a number of experiences when I thought I could play a piece really well, but when I try to perform in front of relatives - my hands get sweaty, my fingers shake and my brain turns to mush. things I thought I knew how to play really well seem to just vanish from my memory.

Thank you for sharing your experiences - hopefully we can all learn from it and go on to become better performers. BTW did you remember the banana?
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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:21 pm

DaveMoutrie wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:59 pm
Andrei Puhach wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:46 pm
DaveMoutrie wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:26 pm
I've been really struggling to get a clean version of the Maria Luisa. Missed dampings bum notes etc., etc., - Realy jealous of you Chu!!


Here is my best effort so far.....
Hey Dave, that's a very musical interpretation! Nice vibrato! Also, the tempo is just about right I guess. Missed dampings make it sound even better in some places actually. :)
But I think you know what I'm going to complain about, right? It is about not alternating right hand fingers. This ascending passage in the first measure: 4 times you play the second half of it with 'a' finger only.
Thank you for your comment Andrie,

I had not noticed that I was playing repeated a in the video, but now that you mention it - its obvious.

When I was practicing this piece I was certainly doing imim alternation and when I pick the guitar up now to play it, my fingers instinctively go to imim alternation. I guess I'm just relieved when I make a recording that does not have too many glaring errors in it.

What I really need to do is have some sort of a check list and watch myself carefully before posting! Also record early so there is plenty of time to re record.
That sounds very familiar to me: record a mistake-free version at all cost :)
DaveMoutrie wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:59 pm

By the way, congratulations on your public perfomance. You played some really advanced pieces. I have had a number of experiences when I thought I could play a piece really well, but when I try to perform in front of relatives - my hands get sweaty, my fingers shake and my brain turns to mush. things I thought I knew how to play really well seem to just vanish from my memory.

Thank you for sharing your experiences - hopefully we can all learn from it and go on to become better performers. BTW did you remember the banana?
Thank you, Dave!!!
Yeah, I remembered the banana, but I guess it was just a placebo. I read some opinions that wine might help, but I don't drink alcohol at all... Anyway, nothing can beat good work on technical aspects of playing. If it is there - everything else will follow I believe.
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Chu Bun
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:16 am

Dave,

There were a few buzzing notes here and there, but other than that very nice work with good tempo and well articulated.

Andrei,

Congrat on your performance. It's not easy to pull off something like that for a non-professional. I would love to be able to play some of these pieces under any condition.
Last edited by Chu Bun on Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:24 am

Last piece. Don't think the improvise is very "ornamental" or "in the style of the period", and the last section was played as is.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:25 pm

Chu Bun wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:24 am
Last piece. Don't think the improvise is very "ornamental" or "in the style of the period", and the last section was played as is.
Nicely played Chu. I like the way you play a little closer to the bridge to make the guitar sound more lute like.

As far as ornamentation is concerned there is a lot of scope here - mordent,Turn,Appoggiatura, trills and so on as Zafar mentions, but hard to know what to use. It certainly had me scratching my head. I Guess the idea is to experiment and see what sounds good.

Not too sure what is in the style of the period, but as there are no recordings from the 17th century, I don't suppose anyone else does really either. :wink:
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:26 am

Dave,

I'm not sure what the style of the period is either, but I tried to copy the style in this clip by monsieur Delcamp on youtube, but gave up after a few rounds.
<media>

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:09 am

Chu Bun wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:26 am
Dave,

I'm not sure what the style of the period is either, but I tried to copy the style in this clip by monsieur Delcamp on youtube, but gave up after a few rounds.
<media>
OMG, that's a lot of trills!!! Every second note is a trill.
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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:17 am

Finally, managed to produce something. A lot of flubs here and there...

- page 72, 73 Carcassi, Matteo Valse opus 23 n°9



Just noticed that spacing is bad, phrases are not separated well. And dynamics have no contrast (even though I tried).

- page 94, 95 Sagreras, Julio Salvador Maria Luisa, Mazurka opus 19
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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:25 am

DaveMoutrie wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:25 pm
Chu Bun wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:24 am
Last piece. Don't think the improvise is very "ornamental" or "in the style of the period", and the last section was played as is.
Nicely played Chu. I like the way you play a little closer to the bridge to make the guitar sound more lute like.

As far as ornamentation is concerned there is a lot of scope here - mordent,Turn,Appoggiatura, trills and so on as Zafar mentions, but hard to know what to use. It certainly had me scratching my head. I Guess the idea is to experiment and see what sounds good.

Not too sure what is in the style of the period, but as there are no recordings from the 17th century, I don't suppose anyone else does really either. :wink:
That's a nice melody, Chu.
This exercise scaries me a bit...
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DaveMoutrie
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:14 pm

Andrei Puhach wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:17 am
Finally, managed to produce something. A lot of flubs here and there...

- page 72, 73 Carcassi, Matteo Valse opus 23 n°9



Just noticed that spacing is bad, phrases are not separated well. And dynamics have no contrast (even though I tried).

- page 94, 95 Sagreras, Julio Salvador Maria Luisa, Mazurka opus 19
Nicely played Andrie,

Considering all the work you must have had to do for your live performance you have done remarkably well.

Just a couple of minor points:

The Carcassi piece does sound a little rushed, though I think you are playing it at about the right tempo and you have some nice rallantandos. Perhaps as you say the phrasing needs looking at. It needs a little gap between the question and the reply. My view is that it needs to sound more like a singer who has to pause to take a breath now and again.

I can hear some contrast in the piece as you are definitely varying the volume. However, I notice that your right hand is playing in exactly the same position all the time, so you are not taking full advantage of the dynamic range of your guitar.

The Mazurka is also played well, and you have good seperation in the A section. However, at the start of the B section the melody is somewhat overpowered by the accompanyment making it sound a little unpretty.

The tricky bit at the end with the left handed finger gymnastics your played very well.

Once again well done! I'm still struggling to get a (reasonably) clean version of the Mazurka.
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by DaveMoutrie » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:27 pm

Chu Bun wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:26 am
Dave,

I'm not sure what the style of the period is either, but I tried to copy the style in this clip by monsieur Delcamp on youtube, but gave up after a few rounds.
<media>
Thanks for the heads up Chu, handy that the fingering is given in the examples - I'll give it a go.
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Andrei Puhach
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:50 pm

DaveMoutrie wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:14 pm
Andrei Puhach wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:17 am
Finally, managed to produce something. A lot of flubs here and there...

...
Nicely played Andrie,

Considering all the work you must have had to do for your live performance you have done remarkably well.

Just a couple of minor points:

The Carcassi piece does sound a little rushed, though I think you are playing it at about the right tempo and you have some nice rallantandos. Perhaps as you say the phrasing needs looking at. It needs a little gap between the question and the reply. My view is that it needs to sound more like a singer who has to pause to take a breath now and again.

I can hear some contrast in the piece as you are definitely varying the volume. However, I notice that your right hand is playing in exactly the same position all the time, so you are not taking full advantage of the dynamic range of your guitar.

The Mazurka is also played well, and you have good seperation in the A section. However, at the start of the B section the melody is somewhat overpowered by the accompanyment making it sound a little unpretty.

The tricky bit at the end with the left handed finger gymnastics your played very well.

Once again well done! I'm still struggling to get a (reasonably) clean version of the Mazurka.
Dave, thank you for this detailed and thoughtful response. Summarizing the issues:
1. Phrasing: need better separation (and no rushing). Probably I tried to stay within the rhythm too much :)

2. Dynamics and color range: change right hand position sometimes. So, this is the most comfortable position, I find it difficult to move RH, need to work more on RH control to be comfortable with that. Another thing: when playing closer to the bridge the sound is very bad. I have no idea how some guitarists play relatively close to the bridge and produce great tone... Probably it is related to the attack angle.

3. Melody/accompaniment balance: make the melody stand out. That's a very great point, Dave.
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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Chu Bun » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:40 am

Andrei,

In the Mazurka opus 19 piece, measure 34 and 42, there seems to be a wrong note. The chord sounds odd.

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Re: D04 Classical guitar lesson 07

Post by Andrei Puhach » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:52 am

As I understand the Ornament assignment is NOT about improvisation. The most frequently used ornament of the period is the trill. So, adding some trills to Españoleta should be good enough.
Here is my submission, it turned to be super-difficult. The most important thing here is to keep the rhythm which I did not manage to do because of technical difficulties with trills. I tried to fix the rhythm but then I cannot do trills anymore...

19/ play and ornament in the style of the period: Españoleta by Gaspar Sanz, page 16 (D03).
Last edited by Andrei Puhach on Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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