D02 Classical guitar lesson 1

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Gregory Martell

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Gregory Martell » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:43 am

Jack Jarrett wrote:Here are my submissions for lesson 1
Nice Jack. Great idea to put them all in post. Happy holidays.

Cheers. Greg.

Peter Johnson

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Peter Johnson » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:55 am

Thanks for the link Jeremy.
The position of the RH is really quite weird and yet the sound is pretty good. Looking at it closely I wonder how the strings are actually plucked/stroked, especially with the i finger. With this position nails would not appear to matter at all and perhaps be useless. Also the thumb moves towards the palm, inside the fingers, which is very natural with our opposing thumbs. The way we are supposed to use the thumb on the CG is actually not natural and I have a problem with this in that sometimes I find my thumb moving towards the palm when making a stroke. The RH position we have to use in this lesson forces me to make the outside stroke. My teacher used to say that the inside stroke was just a habit. One I find difficult to break...

Michael Collings
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Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Michael Collings » Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:23 pm

RichardJ wrote:I feel that I must post something even though I feel like I've had a reprieve as there is a week to go.

Firstly I apologise for the poor recording quality. I promise I am going to get a better microphone.
Also please don't mention the repeated bass A in the second half.
At least I will be able to show improvement :)
Nice playing Richard. Your hands look good- relaxed and stable. As for the recording quality--I felt like I was listening to an old record--kind of pleasant!

Michael Collings
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Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Michael Collings » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:05 pm

Jack Jarrett wrote:Here are my submissions for lesson 1. They are Polyphonie no1 & no2; Bute apoyando no 15 & no 16;Danse D"avila;Oh Susanna;Que Ne Suis-Je La Fougere.

With the holidays coming up I know I won't have any more time to get these any better, so though they are not complete or mastered these are my best takes. What I learned from these 1. My tone is poor 2.My hand slowly creeps down the guitar 3. I don't always do the rest stroke with my thumb when I think I am. 4. I play too fast at times. 5. My hand angle is bad. 6. I don't always dampen when I should

Though I am submitting these I will continue to work on these lessons until I can perform them well, as I can see the benefit of learning these techniques.
Jack
Jack, thanks for posting these. You've certainly done a lot of good work. From your self-observations you are obviously a natural teacher.

Your comment about your hand angle brought something to mind. I'm currently attempting to learn to play the flute. The flute requires a lot of flexibility in ones mouth in order to change register and intonation, but you want to accomplish this without drastically moving your lips all over the place. This economy of motion is not just to conserve energy but also to allow the music to flow naturally at various tempos.

Your right hand is moving a lot which will only allow you to play these pieces only at slow speeds. One thing I'm learning is that rest strokes are great for punching out a melody, but they can also choke up the flow of the music. I have two suggestions:

1. If you haven't already, try to play all these pieces up to tempo (especially Old MacDonald which is still giving me hell!) allowing yourself to be sloppy. The faster tempo will probably reveal some changes that need to happen.

2. Definitely look at D01 lesson two. The exercises on pg. 59 encourage a stable right hand position while accomplishing various combinations of movements. Play these in front of a mirror and see if you can do them with minimal movement in your right hand (as can be seen in M. Delcamp's videos.)

Hope that helps!

Michael Collings
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Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Michael Collings » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:35 pm

Gregory Martell wrote:Hi All

Many thanks for all of the comments regarding my earlier post. Great advice and encouragement. :D I have finally managed to produce a video.

I hope to get more done in the next few days.

Cheers. Greg.
Greg, nice job! You mentioned that getting a passable recording was somewhat of an ordeal but you seemed very relaxed and confident. One thing that I noticed was how many rest strokes you used--not that it matters that much but I believe this is supposed to be a free stroke or "tirando" piece. Nonetheless, this piece is pretty hard to play apoyando so hats off to you! (I believe Jack also played this piece apoyando.)

I would also encourage you to find a more subtle way of dampening the strings between phrases. I noticed that M. Delcamp uses the inside of his plucking hand to dampen the strings at the end of a piece, but between phrases he stops them with the fingers of his plucking hand simply by preparing the "next phrase." This may only be a quirk of mine but I have the feeling a teacher would say the same thing.

Keep up the good work!

Jeremy Hickerson
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Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Jeremy Hickerson » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:45 pm

Just a note on the romantic player's technique, he may not have had nails, I couldn't really tell from the video but it wouldn't surprise me. His technique is not what I am advocating, although I think it illustrates how relaxed the hand and wrist become when the fingers are more parallel to the strings. I have frequently tried out this position for a few seconds before playing to get a feel for the placement of everything, and then returned to more of a half-and-half compromise where the finger strokes are somewhat diagonal across the strings. I'm suggesting moving toward this approach to whatever degree it is comfortable, relaxed, and works for you, particularly if it seems like your fingers are too close to the strings to execute the stroke without moving your wrist or forearm.
Jeremy

Guitarras: 1973 Manouk Papazian (Spruce/Morado), two I have built, and an old Telesforo Julve parlor size

Joseph Albert

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Joseph Albert » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:37 pm

How do people here feel about strictly following Jean-Francois Delcamp's RH fingering on these pieces? In general, I've always looked at RH fingerings as suggestions that work well but that are not necessarily set in stone. Specifically, I find the RH markings on Que Ne Suis-Je La Fougere not to my liking. The first 5 measures are marked:

i m i m a m i m i m i m i m i m i - m i I much prefer them as:
a m i m a m a m i a m i m i m i m - and then repeated, a m...

JA

Peter Johnson

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Peter Johnson » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:50 am

I think we are supposed to follow the fingering. At first I also thought I could use a variation just as you have, Joseph. But I have come to the conclusion that following the fingering as noted forces finger independence. Which is a good thing.
One aspect worth considering is what finger do you use for the damping of the melody line? This is almost worth penciling in on the score. Perhaps some notation is needed for this... like m or a with circle around it.

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Jack Jarrett » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:08 am

Michael
Thanks for your suggestions.I will certainly look at the D01 excercise to practice my economy of motion.Some of my difficulties might lie in my trying to dampen the strings and I think I was trying to rest my hand on the strings to dampen them.Probably a bad idea. And thanks for pointing out the final piece should be tirando! I totally missed that and I think I can play it easier that way. The rest stroke is much harder to perform at a faster tempo.
Jack

Richard Judge

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Richard Judge » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:13 am

Joseph
I have tinkered with the fingering in Que Ne Suis-Je La Fougere
I generally play the a m in the second measure as im so that it's im imim to the end of the phrase. Although I have also tried playing the start of measure 3 as ami
The problem I find is that the end of the fifth bar which is the start of the repeated phrase is marked mi instead of im. I usually use the rest as an excuse to use i twice in order that the fingering of the marked difficult bit is the same each time.

PS Can someone remind me of the name for the part bar at the beginning of a piece?

Peter Johnson

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Peter Johnson » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:05 am

pickup ? maybe, or am I off the track?

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GeoffB
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Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by GeoffB » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:18 am

It is sometimes called a pickup (or pickup note, or pickup measure), but the technical term is an anacrusis.

Geoff
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Charlesoln

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Charlesoln » Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:36 pm

yippie! Thank you, I just could not remember for the life of me what that was...

Richard Judge

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Richard Judge » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:04 pm

anacrusis that's the word I was trying to get.
todays word of the day.

Gregory Martell

Re: D02 Lesson 1

Post by Gregory Martell » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:42 pm

Michael Collings wrote:Greg, nice job! You mentioned that getting a passable recording was somewhat of an ordeal but you seemed very relaxed and confident.
Thanks. I would not say ordeal, just more effort than I am used to. I think the combination of recording yourself while trying to adjust old habits and form new ones provides for some fun times.
Michael Collings wrote:One thing that I noticed was how many rest strokes you used--not that it matters that much but I believe this is supposed to be a free stroke or "tirando" piece. Nonetheless, this piece is pretty hard to play apoyando so hats off to you! (I believe Jack also played this piece apoyando.)
Oh my :oops: I missed that completely. Thanks for pointing that out. It feels like a different piece now.
Michael Collings wrote:I would also encourage you to find a more subtle way of dampening the strings between phrases. I noticed that M. Delcamp uses the inside of his plucking hand to dampen the strings at the end of a piece, but between phrases he stops them with the fingers of his plucking hand simply by preparing the "next phrase." This may only be a quirk of mine but I have the feeling a teacher would say the same thing.
Again thanks. I tried this yesterday and its a lot more comfortable and quite a bit less effort to do.

Thanks again Michael for your observations and input. :D

Cheers. Greg.

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