D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

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Dragonbones
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Re: D02 Lesson 3

Post by Dragonbones » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:12 am

Stewart wrote:it's left to us to either try something similar ourselves or just stick to the score?
Yes, I imagine that it is left to us to choose. I really like some of the added ornamentation, especially the three slurs, and feel it enhances the piece, which is otherwise a bit too plainly repetitive.
Pleasure is spread through the earth In stray gifts to be claimed by whoever shall find. —William Wordsworth

2008 Sergio Huerta concierto,
San Miguel de Allende, Mexico

Michael Collings
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Michael Collings » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:45 am

I've been doing better about practicing the hard sections individually and not just playing the pieces all the way through. However, I'm still not up to tempo and I'd like to do more with ornamentation on Atoye. Anyway here are my posts...

[media]https://youtu.be/NN9sHn0tdOo[/media]

[media]https://youtu.be/CejOLsuhpCc[/media]

Jack Jarrett

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Jack Jarrett » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:08 am

Michael well done! You've set the bar high. Good ornamentation on Atoye and great job with Soleares.I would really be nitpicking to find problems with that so I won't bother. I'm thinking I better quit getting sidetracked and start getting to really work on these.
:bravo:

Stewart Doyle
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Stewart Doyle » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:29 pm

Hi Michael - excellently and confidently played and very musical too. I particularly like the way you start the sections in Soleares. Falseta 2 sounds like something coming back to life! I'm glad your pieces aren't "up to tempo" yet as I've been using them to help my own practice, alongside M. Delcamp's of course. I find it easier to see the damping used - possibly because you're right handed? I feel as though I should offer some sort of advice/challenge for you so perhaps you could see if the balance between the melody and the accompanying notes in the triplets could emphasise the melody more? That really is nit-picking and I could say the same for M. Delcamp's version which probably means I'm just plain wrong!

One of the main problems I have with Soleares is the right hand fingering security e.g. during the runs that use of mixture of p and mi I'm not confident about getting the right string. It might just be a consequence of my long break from playing, but I wonder whether it's a lack of technique too? It might also just mean I'm not practicing the trickier sections enough but if anyone has some good exercises/advice for this I'd be very grateful. [I've just added my own answer - I'd still welcome any advice but I think the answer is a combination of the lack of playing and insufficient practice. I just think I need to slow right down and practice the sections over and over until secure at the right tempo. Once I've done this for many pieces over time, the 'muscle memory' should give me greater right hand security.]

I do have one other question though. In bar 7 (incl repeats) does the damping of 'g' using 3 mean you should flatten the third finger so that it covers the 'f' and also the 'g' string or should it somehow rock over to do the damping. If you've seen my video you'll see that I have much bigger challenges before attempting this, but I'd still like to know how this damping should be done.

Thanks, Stewart
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Michael Collings
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Michael Collings » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:27 pm

Thanks Jack and Stewart for your feedback.
Stewart wrote: I feel as though I should offer some sort of advice/challenge for you so perhaps you could see if the balance between the melody and the accompanying notes in the triplets could emphasise the melody more?
Yes, looking back on the video I see that the melody is a little swallowed by the "accompaniment" (open e in the triplet). Thanks for pointing that out!
Stewart wrote:One of the main problems I have with Soleares is the right hand fingering security e.g. during the runs that use of mixture of p and mi I'm not confident about getting the right string. It might just be a consequence of my long break from playing, but I wonder whether it's a lack of technique too?
This is one of my main problems (not only in Soleares) that I've recently started to deal with. I think the main solution to this problem is to have a stable right hand position no matter what you're playing. It's worth trying to find a position where both rest strokes and free strokes may be executed with the thumb and fingers without drastic shifting of the right hand/wrist. It seems that M. Delcamp accomplishes this by keeping his thumb "out of line" with ima. Some people say that your rh thumb and index finger should create an "x." Also, in his video of Soleares watch how the arch in his wrist barely changes. (I notice in my video that I kept a stable hand/wrist position in the first Solea and the Final, but failed to do so on some of the easier rest strokes).

Two things have helped me begin to keep a stable right hand position. First are the "Polyphonie" exercises in lesson 1: I'm trying to play the thumb and finger rest strokes without altering my right hand or wrist position. I'm also trying to apply this to to Danse d'Avila, Old Macdonald, etc. Second are these videos by Pavel Steidl I found on this forum. The first video is especially good in displaying right hand position--the staccato exercises are great too.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54629&hilit=pavel+s ... asterclass

While Steidl is not my favorite guitarist, he's got some great things to say about technique. It's helped me--hope it helps you too.

Stewart Doyle
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Stewart Doyle » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:20 pm

Happy New Year to all, and many thanks to Michael for the insightful advice and suggestions. I'm sure I do need to work on a stable right hand position independently via exercises. Trying to achieve security by (over)-practicing a piece could just mask the underlying problem and be counter-productive. I need to create a practice routine that includes your suggestions and stick to it. Having made that public commitment I'll post back in a week or so to report how I get on...
Stewart
Alhambra 11P Spruce
Antonio Lorca 3605 Cedar

Richard Judge

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Richard Judge » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:44 pm

Having not posted anything for the last lesson I feel I'd better get on and post something for this one.
I'm not 100% happy with this as there are a couple (or more) obvious mistakes. I had to trim 2 false starts. Watch my left hand as I stumble on the bass runs in Falseta 5 and you see my wrist rather twisted. Something to be learned there perhaps.

On the other hand I am pleased to get something uploaded and I'm sure with practice the process (and my confidence) will improve. there is still time for another go on this lesson.

Any comments or suggestions are gratefully received (be nice...)

PS The sound quality is much better than my previous postings as I now have a Samson GoMic which is excellent and is very good value.

[media]https://youtu.be/QXbLyE-_4II[/media]

Stewart Doyle
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Stewart Doyle » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:10 pm

Well done Richard, it's great to see another contribution to these lessons. I had to smile at the end of your video as it reminded me of how I think I used the 'golpe' - the striking of the guitar, as well as the final string damping as a vent for my frustration in my version. I actually checked my guitar for damage afterwards! Your finale has a hint of this, although you are certainly further on with this piece than I am. Have you seen Michael's very helpful post above? I've noticed that if you compare the right hand position of M. Delcamp and Michael when starting the first run (bar 5 including repeats) with the shift in right hand position we both do, you'll see that M. Delcamp and Michael both have the thumb anchored on the sixth string and just look more stable.
I hope this is useful and I should point out that I'm no teacher, but I'm certainly going to try to work on a more stable right hand position. I might just try to focus on my technique and apply it to 'A Toye' rather than spend too much time on 'Soleares', but I have further to go than you do!

Stewart
Alhambra 11P Spruce
Antonio Lorca 3605 Cedar

Richard Judge

Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Richard Judge » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:25 pm

Thanks Stewart for your reply, yes I do find it useful.

Reviewing the posts of M. Delcamp and Michael I also noticed that they are using their thumb more in the runs in the Solea and the Final. My copy is marked imimim all the way through these sections. This lead me to check my version of the score and it has changed. I must admit that after the "download the newest copy" part of the post appeared each lesson I thought I had already done this :oops: M. delcamp must be making changes every lesson.
I had to smile at the end of your video as it reminded me of how I think I used the 'golpe' - the striking of the guitar, as well as the final string damping as a vent for my frustration in my version.
I'm not entirely sure what "golpe" actually means. In the older version I was using the last note is a quarter (crotchet) then the golpe then a rest so I was trying to do the golpe at the same time as damping the strings. :roll:
My frustration can be seen in the expression on my face as I stop the recording!

Ned Henderson
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:08 pm

Hi Folks

Just to say I am still with the practise though I have to admit it has been "Practice Lite" for the last week or so.
I have been having technological problems with getting my practice videoed and online, hope to fix that before long.I am finding the apoyando practice for A Toye especially hard, I never learned the rest stroke and I also began these lessons after the first lesson which I think focused on this. My right hand is all over the shop.

Richard, just watched your video, I particularly liked the steadiness of the tempo. You are well ahead of me there.

Incidentally I just looked up golpe:

Golpe (Spanish m.) stroke, blow, knock, bump, bang, collision (car), blow, misfortune, witticism, sally, shock, punch, hold-up, robbery
Golpe tap on the guitar soundboard in flamenco music
in flamenco dance the term refers to footwork: the full sole of the foot striking or stamping upon the floor.

Ned H.

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Dragonbones
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Dragonbones » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:06 am

RichardJ wrote:M. delcamp must be making changes every lesson.
Yes, definitely. Be sure to download new pages when each lesson starts.
Stewart wrote:I do have one other question though. In bar 7 (incl repeats) does the damping of 'g' using 3 mean you should flatten the third finger so that it covers the 'f' and also the 'g' string or should it somehow rock over to do the damping. If you've seen my video you'll see that I have much bigger challenges before attempting this, but I'd still like to know how this damping should be done.
I'm just flattening the finger a little, like a 'lazy barre', such that the next knuckle up is closer to the strings than usual, and I'm fretting with more of the pad of the finger rather than the normal, precise tip. It doesn't need to fret anywhere on the g string cleanly; it just has to touch it enough to stop the sound, so it's quite easy to do. I'm not sure what you mean by 'rock over'.
Pleasure is spread through the earth In stray gifts to be claimed by whoever shall find. —William Wordsworth

2008 Sergio Huerta concierto,
San Miguel de Allende, Mexico

Ned Henderson
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:04 am

Hi

I am hoping at last I have managed to get something onto Youtube and link it correctly.

I am not making any great claims for this. It's a first attempt and I get a bit camera shy, but I hope it will encourage other students who have been practising with us but haven't posted their practice yet.


Soleares
[media]https://youtu.be/3MXyxzfFNzE[/media]


A Toye
[media]https://youtu.be/VJCX1hvIWnk[/media]

I am happy to have your feedback and comments. I just ask for a little gentleness, but then you all have been so far!

Ned H.

Ned Henderson
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:10 am

Not sure what's gone wrong here folks but it doesn't look right to me on reviewing it.

Not sure if this will be any more effective but I hope so...

[media]https://youtu.be/3MXyxzfFNzE[/media]
[media]https://youtu.be/VJCX1hvIWnk[/media]

Ned H.

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GeoffB
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by GeoffB » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:10 am

It's OK now, Ned, I just fixed it.

Geoff
Classical Guitar Forum.

"Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." - Steven Wright

Ned Henderson
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Re: D02 Classical guitar lesson 3

Post by Ned Henderson » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:11 am

Oh I get it...it takes a little while to connect with Youtube...

Ned H.

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